Lle Llywela

RECAP!!! OMG OMG BUT IT'S ONLY BARELY WEDNESDAY! (And I really need to go to bed because it took me like 10 tries to spell Wednesday right. And I just spelled that one wrong too.)

I have a cold too. I was fine up until yesterday, and now my throat is killing me so bad I can't sleep.

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Yeah. Less time spent playing in photoshop this week. Or maybe it's just that I haven't edited it enough...

Sympathy for the cold. Mine has lasted over a week now and I'm SO BORED of feeling ill! That's the reason there are no graphics this week. I'll come back and do them when I'm feeling better and have more time available.

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Did I sound like a jerk about those graphic things? *worries* I totally understand, being sick just saps all of your energy away. I'm impressed you got out 25 pages of meta.

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Nooooo. No, you weren't being a jerk. I was explaining. Not my best week ever, is all. I enjoy the writing, though. That comes first.

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Aww, no pretty things to print! Oh well, I'll live. I'm actually still on the fence about this episode, but it was fun to read through your review!

You know what's particularly heartbreaking to me? For all the years before this one, Dean was trying to protect Sam from becoming too hardened. It was Dean opting to take on all the tough decisions and choices that allowed Sam to keep his soft heart, and now it looks like it will all be for nothing, because Sam is right - if he wants to survive, he can't really be the Sam we known and love.

And what's also hard is that I think Sam is hardening not only because he has to, but because he thinks it will somehow help him save Dean. And he couldn't kill someone before - meaning Jake and Gordon - when it was his own life at stake, but the second it's Dean's soul on the line, he doesn't have a problem.

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I've decided that I love this one. I don't like Ruby claiming to be a good demon, but since I don't believe a word she says anyway, I'm free to love the rest of the episode.

The situation the boys are in is heartbreaking in just about every way - everything twists in on them, and so much that they've both struggled with seems to be in vain. Like...how every time Sam felt responsible for the YED targeting their family and Dean reassured him, but, you know, he's right. If Sam hadn't been born, John, Mary and Dean would have lived normal, happy lives, and that's heartbreaking to think about. And how Dean believed all through season two that everyone would have been better off if he'd died when he was supposed to, and he was right, too. Dean would have been better off - he certainly wouldn't be staring the prospect of hell in the face right now. And that hurts to think about. Everything about their situation and how they are reacting to it hurts to think about. Poor boys.

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Dean just needs to be hugged for the rest of his life, he deserves it.

I am curious about Mary's history though - and if it was the demon blood that made those kids special or if they had powers already, or...I need backstory, dammit!

You know what else is sad? For all of Sam's empathy and compassion, this season he's so focused on the big picture he loses track of the little things he used to find so important. When Sam died back in AHBL, Dean didn't go after Jake - he stayed with Sam. Now, I think the situation in this episode was a little different, because he KNEW an exact way to stop Dean dying, but the fact is: he seems to have no problem sacrificing time with his brother for trying to save him. For some reason, and I can't pinpoint why, I think that may come from John.

And you're right, if it hadn't worked in Faith, how devastated would he have been, that he spent his brother's last days away from him?

I can't imagine being Sam right now. Because if he spends all his time researching, that's time he'll never get back to be with Dean if Dean doesn't make it. And if he spends all his time with Dean, or maybe even any time at all and Dean dies, there will always be a part of him going, "If you'd looked more often, you would have found a way." Sam's more focused on the future than the now, which is how he always is - but for Dean it must hurt, because he lives for NOW, and NOW he is kind of without his brother.

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You know what else is sad? For all of Sam's empathy and compassion, this season he's so focused on the big picture he loses track of the little things he used to find so important. When Sam died back in AHBL, Dean didn't go after Jake - he stayed with Sam. Now, I think the situation in this episode was a little different, because he KNEW an exact way to stop Dean dying, but the fact is: he seems to have no problem sacrificing time with his brother for trying to save him. For some reason, and I can't pinpoint why, I think that may come from John.
Yeah, it was the soldier's choice, like I said. He saw a possible solution and he ran for it, choosing to fight for his brother's life over offering comfort. Impossible situation, because he had no way of knowing if his idea would work - and ultimately, it didn't. If Ruby hadn't come to the rescue, Dean would have died all alone, and it would have become another thing Sam wouldn't forgive himself for. But he had to try, because if he hadn't, he wouldn't have forgiven himself for that, either. So...he was doing what he had to do, but it's just another example of how focused he is, so incredibly single-minded, just to be able to walk away from Dean like that. It's definitely a character trait he got from John.

I can't imagine being Sam right now. Because if he spends all his time researching, that's time he'll never get back to be with Dean if Dean doesn't make it. And if he spends all his time with Dean, or maybe even any time at all and Dean dies, there will always be a part of him going, "If you'd looked more often, you would have found a way." Sam's more focused on the future than the now, which is how he always is - but for Dean it must hurt, because he lives for NOW, and NOW he is kind of without his brother.
I'm not sure Sam even is researching ways out of the deal any more. We saw his feverish efforts at the beginning of the season, but he really seems to have completely given up now, and that's a terrible thing to contemplate because Sam never gives up.

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You know, I don't think I can take another season of this. At least the last two seasons, there was hope, but this season, it's like: Dean's dying. That's it.

They had BETTER NOT kill him or I'm gonna be pissed.

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I know :( They really are laying the hopelessness on thick, in the last few episodes especially. I still think that's to emphasise the magnitude of the miracle when Dean is eventually saved. Which he will be. No other possibility shall be considered!

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They kind of hit rock bottom in 'Croatoan' in S2 as well and Sam was giving into despair pretty heavily back then too! We all know, that they like to make things worse before it goes up again! *g*

Well, they killed Sam, see how that turned out! *lol* Honestly, no matter how they go about it, this show only has 2 leads and they won't have a show with one of them dead. There is no way in the world they kill Dean off for good. ;)

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ROFL Oh, I love your circular logic. 'See how they did this before, and it all turned out okay...except that it really didn't because Sam died...but it will be okay, honest!' LOL

If they killed either of the brothers, they would have no show. So in that, at least, we can feel reasonably secure. But, man, they love to torture us! Such an emotional rollercoaster this show is.

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Hey, it DID turn out okay .. well mostly .. at least he isn't dead anymore. *g* There's a lot of speculation about them sending Dean to hell for a while, let the contract actually play out and Sam then freeing him, which would be an intriguing concept, except that I don't think they have the budget to actually realise hell on screen. Plus, separating the brothers for a longer amount of time is just unthinkable.

Hey, they can kill Dean off and then make it the Sam and Ruby show! *g* Heh, just kidding. :D

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LOL Well, logically, if one of the actors wanted out but the show went on, the formula and concept would have to be tweaked accordingly to show the other actually having to deal with life alone. Expanding the roles of existing recurring characters would be the only way of realising it, in practical terms, because that solo brother would need other characters to interact with, if only for ease of exposition! But it isn't going to happen, of course. I'd rather have Jo back than Ruby, in that case. *G*

There's a lot of speculation about them sending Dean to hell for a while, let the contract actually play out and Sam then freeing him, which would be an intriguing concept, except that I don't think they have the budget to actually realise hell on screen. Plus, separating the brothers for a longer amount of time is just unthinkable.
I think if they went down that route they'd have to not show hell, just have Dean gone and Sam in bits, and then deal with the aftermath once Dean was back, the inevitable trauma, and whatnot, if he returned with memory intact. But the problem with that theory is that, Sam aside, people on this show do not come back from the dead. If Dean died and went to hell, releasing his spirit later would not bring him back to life; his body would already be gone. Unless they repeated the same trick that was used with Sam, but I can't see them going for such direct duplication. So the only way to do it would be to have Dean dragged bodily into hell, which seems less likely now that we know more about what goes on in hell. If the whole point is to trap human spirits down there and burn their humanity away until they become demons, there'd be no point at all in taking someone there whose spirit was still attached to a body...

Okay, my brain hurts now.

*sigh* All we can do is wait and see what happens! And keep hoping for a resolution to the strike, so that we can have new episodes made sooner rather than later.

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ROFL can you imagine the uproar in fandom if they would actually try to replace Dean with Ruby or Jo for that matter. *g* Kripke would receive homicidal letters in spades and would need to hide for the rest of his life. Apart from the fact that both actors won't get tired to stress how much they love their roles, I can't really see them working on the show without the other. This is the Sam'n'Dean show, we know it, the writers and producers know it, the actors know it. :)

True, they wouldn't actually need to show hell, still I can't imagine they would dare to shoot a couple of episodes with Dean gone. *g* People already complain if one of the boys isn't featured in one episode enough. SN fans are a picky lot. :D

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ROFL can you imagine the uproar in fandom if they would actually try to replace Dean with Ruby or Jo for that matter. *g* Kripke would receive homicidal letters in spades and would need to hide for the rest of his life. Apart from the fact that both actors won't get tired to stress how much they love their roles, I can't really see them working on the show without the other. This is the Sam'n'Dean show, we know it, the writers and producers know it, the actors know it. :)

ROFLMAO Absolutely. I was just being hypothetical, since the issue had been raised...

OMG cat is eating my shiny new SN magazine!

...*rescues mag and returns*

True, they wouldn't actually need to show hell, still I can't imagine they would dare to shoot a couple of episodes with Dean gone. *g* People already complain if one of the boys isn't featured in one episode enough. SN fans are a picky lot.

Very picky. *G* Well, since we're dealing in hypotheticals, I daresay there wouldn't need to be more than one episode with Dean gone...

*wonders what the writers have planned*

*wants strike to be over already*

*rescues magazine again*

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Ahh Jo review! ♥ Really loved this one, very sharp and well structured. *hugs*

I've seen grumbling about gender issues in this episode, with all the witches being women, but honestly, I think that's being a little over-sensitive to political correctness.
OMG yes! I am honestly every time baffled this comes up. Nobody ever complains if the victims are males or kids and they are often enough. I made a statistic once that showed that there's even more male deaths on the show than female and on the evil side they are spread out as well.

The same goes for the complaint about Dean calling witches/Ruby bitches and skanks sexistic, I mean, c'mon, we never heard Dean use those names on real women, he always treats them with respect. We can't forget that he talks to a demon here, who doesn't constitute as a person for Dean. Same goes for people who use black magic. He hates those people, knowing what kind of havoc they wreak for personal gain. I can't believe that people complain about his words choices here. :( I was never ever offended by anything in the show.

That unwavering intensity is Sam's scariest and most dangerous characteristic, when you think about it. It's Sam, though, and he's his father's son.
It always kills me to see just how much like John Sam often is in his single-mindedness and how much he really needs Dean at his side to remind him what's important in the end. Sam might be Dean's conscience, but Dean is Sam's connection to family and loyalty. It's so devastating to see that stripped away from Sam, leaving a ruthless hunter in its wake. Ruthless!Sam by choice is even more scary than evil!Sam, turned by forces beyond his control. :(

But the trap she set for Dean involved black magic rather than demon power, presumably because it was an assassination carried out at distance.
I still haven't come up with a good reason for her to attack Dean in the first place. Why not go for Sam directly? Since she knows where their motel is, she could've even just went there and confront Sam directly, with her telekinetic power Sam was never any match for her and if she wanted to kill him she could have achieved that goal any time after she met him at Elisabeth's place. That whole set-up just doesn't make sense to me. :(

I don't think gender or sex mean anything to demons.
I used to think the same. I think that demons tend to possess persons who are either useful to them or match their own character profile. Like the Envy demon possessing the guy who was envious of his neighbor or Meg and Tammi possessing the persons that were close to those they needed them to be. On the other hand, with the reveal that demons were humans it might be that they do have gender preferences, based on their gender when they were alive, but Meg proved that they can possess persons of any gender if they want to.

Still loving the episode after multiple viewings. A lot to chew over and the question of Ruby's agenda is still in the open and I hope it turns out to be a spectacular twist in the story .. even if we might only get it somewhen around fall. /sigh

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I was never ever offended by anything in the show.
Me either. But I guess people who have axes to grind will find excuses anywhere, whether legitimate or not.

It always kills me to see just how much like John Sam often is in his single-mindedness and how much he really needs Dean at his side to remind him what's important in the end. Sam might be Dean's conscience, but Dean is Sam's connection to family and loyalty. It's so devastating to see that stripped away from Sam, leaving a ruthless hunter in its wake. Ruthless!Sam by choice is even more scary than evil!Sam, turned by forces beyond his control. :(
Oooh, yes. It's scary to think how shut-off Sam could become. And it's also kind of ironic that in terms of straightforward hunting he thinks it is something new, to be a bit ruthless and make hard decisions, but when you think back to season one, he's always had that about him, it just manifested in different situations back then. Now, he's making those decisions more consciously and in cold blood, but when things have been heated or emotional he's always been able to completely shut down on feelings and make the hard choice. Faith was the example I used in the recap, but there's a touch of it in Route 666 as well - it always staggers me that he's so focused on figuring out the answer and so convinced he's right that he almost forgets he's playing with his brother's life. Would it kill him to have Dean wait a few feet back, so that the killer truck is destroyed before it hits him, instead of as it hits him? It would be safer. But Sam never allows for error, he just makes his decision and charges.

I still haven't come up with a good reason for her to attack Dean in the first place. Why not go for Sam directly? Since she knows where their motel is, she could've even just went there and confront Sam directly, with her telekinetic power Sam was never any match for her and if she wanted to kill him she could have achieved that goal any time after she met him at Elisabeth's place. That whole set-up just doesn't make sense to me. :(
I'm going to guess that having realised Sam was in town she wanted a direct showdown with him, face to face, to rub his face in his defeat, but didn't want Dean getting in the way of that. Sam is the one all the demons are interested in, and Dean is just unecessary distraction. So she removes Dean from the picture, which has the added benefit of upsetting Sam and throwing him off his game, and then she's got Sam all to herself. It almost worked, as well.

On the other hand, with the reveal that demons were humans it might be that they do have gender preferences, based on their gender when they were alive
*nods* A gender preference is very likely, especially for those with more of a connection to their past selves, whether conscious or not. But I still don't think it's hugely important to them in the grand scheme of things - the 'slashy' vibe between Ruby and Tammi wasn't about sex or gender, it was about the power balance.

After multiple viewings, the teeth and maggots still squick me out.

Let us look forward to a spectacular twist in the story whenever we get it - but sooner would be so much nicer than later!

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It's scary to think how shut-off Sam could become.
Absolutely. I tend to think that with Dean gone, Sam would step by step go down a similar route like Gordon or most of the other hunters that we met so far. People who all started out as decent human beings but their hunter's quest out of hate & vengeance & despair slowly but surely turned them into 'revenge driven sociapaths'. I think Sam has all the characteristics to potentially slip away like that. It's a horrific thought if you think back at the gentle and caring young man we met at the beginning of the show. Dean needs to stay alive. Period! :)

When you think back to season one, he's always had that about him, it just manifested in different situations back then. (...)
True, but then he was under a great deal of time pressure in both R666 and MM and he had to make a quick decision, that usually doesn't leave a lot of margin for internal debates or questioning. It's noticeable though that Dean usually takes the time to look after his brother first, before he undertakes any steps. I am thinking about how he tries to get Sam to breathe first in 'Home' before he takes action or that he chooses to stay with Sam for his last hours instead of trying to find another solution to the virus problem in 'Croatoan'.

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I think Sam has all the characteristics to potentially slip away like that. It's a horrific thought if you think back at the gentle and caring young man we met at the beginning of the show. Dean needs to stay alive. Period! :)
Poor Sam. And poor Dean. The moment the Yellow-Eyed Demon resurfaced, both of their lives started spiralling down and down and there's still no end in sight :(

True, but then he was under a great deal of time pressure in both R666 and MM and he had to make a quick decision, that usually doesn't leave a lot of margin for internal debates or questioning. It's noticeable though that Dean usually takes the time to look after his brother first, before he undertakes any steps. I am thinking about how he tries to get Sam to breathe first in 'Home' before he takes action or that he chooses to stay with Sam for his last hours instead of trying to find another solution to the virus problem in 'Croatoan'.
*nods again* That's kinda what I mean. It's the way in which Sam is so very like John, and Dean isn't really like either of them. John and Sam both focus on the problem, often to the exclusion of all other considerations. Dean focuses on the person, often to the exclusion of all other considerations. Neither approach is necessarily right or wrong, just very different. But the way Sam is exaggerating that ruthless streak of his is potentially very dangerous. It's the reason they need each other so much - together, they balance out.

Edited Date: 2008-02-06 02:19 pm (UTC)

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That makes me think again that I really want to know why Sam gave up on getting Dean out of the deal all of a sudden. I mean in RSAM he was fiercely telling Dean that he will go on trying to save him and that he won't apologize for that anymore and in AVSC it's like he has given up already, without any further circumstancial triggers. It makes me wonder if they want to imply that their reconciliation in Fresh Blood made Sam accept the deal for Dean's sake and peace of mind (what with him potentially dropping dead and all) and instead moved on to 'saving' himself, for when Dean is gone. Which really makes me so sad again, damn, those Winchesters! *hugs them tight*

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It is a puzzler, not having the development explained or explored on screen. But maybe having to fight Dean every step of the way actually helped keep Sam going with his research efforts, because having something tangible to fight against helped keep him angry and therefore prevented him sliding into despair. Since they've had their reconciliation and reached an understanding he doesn't have that any more. That confrontation in Fresh Blood was a turning point for Sam as well as for Dean, because it was the moment his own walls of denial came crashing down, the first time he admitted out lout that he might not be able to save his brother. So maybe without that anger and denial to fuel his stubborn determination to keep going, he's just completely lost all hope that there is any miracle out there to find. And thus he's hit absolute despair.

Poor boys :(

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Yeah, that's the only reasoning that I came up with as well. :( It's still bugging me though since Sam just isn't the type to give up, especially with an important task like that. Facing the fact that he might fail in the end is one thing, giving up on it a completely different one.

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Sam never gives up on anything. So maybe it's intended to really drive the point home, showing us that if even Sam is admitting defeat, then it really, really is completely futile. After all, it's been months and the only thing he's found is Ruby and her vague promises. The show is definitely emphasising the hopelessness of Dean's situation in the last few episodes. I still tend to believe that this is to emphasise the magnitude of the miracle when it finally comes *G*

Except of course that Dean will already have hellhounds chewing on him by then, so as to amp up the tension even post-salvation, because this is Supernatural, and even miracles don't come for free, and nothing is ever simple or straightforward! That's my prediction, anyway, which will stand until new information becomes available...

Edited Date: 2008-02-06 03:19 pm (UTC)

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Maybe, I still prefer to be shown that the situation is hopeless than told so. But I guess with all the different plotlines they have going on some things have been cut short or are assumed to be self-evident.

ROFL of course Dean's salvation will come with a high price, after all, we need some brother complications to angst over in S4 *lol*

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*looks forward to brotherly complications and angst in season four, and is cheered immensely by the prospect*

*G*

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kilynn16.livejournal.com

I finally got a chance to read this, and I'm so glad I did! 3.09 was a difficult episode for me to watch. It was so hard to see Sam giving up and becoming more and more jaded and hardened, but it was even harder seeing Dean see Sam become those things. If that makes any sense. I just feel like, Dean truly thought he was doing the right thing, making his deal. As long as Sam was all right, Dean didn't care what happened to himself. But it turns out that Sam isn't going to be all right. Dean has created what is essentially hell on earth for Sam and Sam is going to have to deal with that all on his own. Dean has made this bed, but Sam's the one that's going to have to lie in it. And my heart breaks with the unfairness of it all, because Dean really was just trying to do what was best for his family. *sigh* I just can't even think about it for too long because I get all worked up.

I wish I had more time to ramble on about all the fantastic points you made, but the new episode is airing here in an hour and I must go, you know, prepare myself emotionally. *L*

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