llywela: (DW-12)
[personal profile] llywela
Once upon a time when I was 11 years old, I was in the school choir for a very small window of time. One of the songs we learned, for a competition, was a musical rendition of Blake's 'Tiger Tiger', and it has stayed with me ever since - it's a lovely song; the words are haunting enough on their own, the music even more so. Then, on the way home from the competition, my sister and I were the last to be dropped off but the bus driver decided that was too much like hard work to actually drive to that one last house, so made us get out with the person being dropped off before us, which meant we were stranded in the wrong place quite late at night and had to go into this other person's house (not even a friend, just a random person who happened to be in the choir) and phone our dad to come and get us. And it freaked me out so much that I never went back to choir again.

Why am I talking about this? Because telling this story allows me to put off grumbling about Doctor Who!

So. This episode. Well, it did at least make sense of that time I wandered past the museum at lunch and saw a film crew setting up a small jungle of potted plants around the doors. As a runaround, I suppose it was middling - I've seen worse - but the cons definitely outweigh the pros. The episode broke my suspension of disbelief in a number of ways, and never recovered from that.

For starters, remember when Doctor Who was a show whose brief was to introduce some real science and history to the children watching? It isn't even pretending to be science fiction any more. At least when the Tom Baker era had vegetation rampaging out of control there was an explanation (it was aliens wot dunnit!) that didn't boil down to 'trees are magic and will save the world just because'. This was pure fairytale, harking back to the worst of the Amy Pond era. The logic wasn't even internally consistent.

Also, I figured out the twist way, way before the Doctor did. Isn't he supposed to be cleverer than me?

That was meant to be London in an emergency? And the group with the Doctor plus Maebh's mother were the only people moving around? Over 8million people and they all decided to stay at home instead of going out to see the mysterious magical trees? No one else had family they were worried about and wanted to look for? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

And I haven't even started on the characters yet. Nobody reacted like a real person would. Clara and Danny believed that the world was about to be incinerated, no way of stopping it, and they had the opportunity to at least save the lives of the children whose safety they were responsible for...but instead made a unilateral decision that the children would be better off burning to death than escaping in the TARDIS...because they would be sad? Seriously? Saving at least a fragment of the human race and starting again is too much like hard work, so we'd rather die? What kind of message does that send? What happened to that indomitable spirit of survival that Tom Baker's Doctor used to wax lyrical about? Give me The Ark in Space any day!

So Danny got to be the big damn hero, improbably scaring a tiger away with a handheld torch...after taking a group of schoolchildren to within 10 feet of it. And Clara's reaction was 'what a hero, you saved us' instead of 'what were you thinking, bringing those children into such danger?' I don't buy it. All gloss, no plausibility.

All the characterisation here was determined by plot requirement, rather than how anyone, least of all these characters, would actually react.

And the Doctor reckons everyone will forget what happened, except that all the destruction caused by the vegetation is still there and all those escaped animals from the zoo are still rampaging around. Not quite the reset ending it wanted to be, but no mention of any consequences.

I watched the teaser for next week and could only think what a waste of time all this has been - whatever twist is coming won't be enough to redeem the contrived, poorly executed build-up that has stifled the entire season.

Date: 2014-10-26 07:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catsdownunder.livejournal.com
It was confusing and all I could think of was NANNY McPHEE and the BIG BANG ... ala Lord Nelson and the Lions. I was waiting for her to ride through the jungle astride her side car with Mordred and his cousin in tow.

Who is Clara? Who is Missy? Someone has mentioned The Library ... Riversong. People have mentioned The Master. Clara is supposed to have been born to save the Doctor but next week it looks like she is going to do the opposite. Maybe OSGOOD will be the one to save the day.

Date: 2014-10-26 07:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
Well, all that 'I was born to save the Doctor' rubbish was nonsense anyway - hyperbolic guff that sounded good but never meant anything. Clara was not born to save the Doctor - that particular storyline made it clear that she was an ordinary woman who simply chose to do something remarkable...which resulted in all those other splinter Claras, who, I suppose, really were born to save the Doctor. But the original wasn't. It was just something she said for the voiceover because it sounded good and because Clara likes to believe in destiny.

Does it show that I really dislike that kind of voiceover, which are always designed to sound portentous but rarely actually mean anything?

But then there's this storyline, and who knows where that's leading - or what it'll do to retcon the past!

Honestly, I'd rather have a season of standalone episodes through which the characters learn and grow organically, rather than having everything bent and twisted to fit a pre-ordained story arc that doesn't suit anyone.

Bah humbug!

Date: 2014-10-26 08:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catsdownunder.livejournal.com
Is this storyline leading to the DOCTOR FIND GALLIFREY the LONG way around. If that is the case then it has been an OK series, but if not, WHAT A WASTE of resources.

Moffatt likes to draw on past bits'n'pieces ... but this series feels like a handful of pieces in a zillion piece jigsaw.

I am happy we are going to see OSGOOD and her puffer again. Maybe the Doctor will learn her name this time around. Would love to see MALCOLM is still at UNIT ... not just the name but LEE EVANS himself. Can you tell we have just watched Michelle Ryan's episode ;)

2 more a break and then the Christmas episode. All gone too quickly and probably quicker because we are confused from week to week. Well I am.

Date: 2014-10-26 09:49 am (UTC)
newmoonstar: (Default)
From: [personal profile] newmoonstar
Clara and Danny believed that the world was about to be incinerated, no way of stopping it, and they had the opportunity to at least save the lives of the children whose safety they were responsible for...but made a unilateral decision that the children would be better off burning to death than escaping in the TARDIS...because they would be sad? Seriously? Saving at least a fragment of the human race and starting again is too much like hard work, so we'd rather die? What kind of message does that send?

THIS. My thoughts exactly. That part was ridiculous. There's stoic, and then there's just plain crazy. This was the latter. The fact that the Doctor accepted her reasoning made it even worse. I hope we get all new writers soon!

Date: 2014-10-27 09:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
This used to be such a hopeful, optimistic show - you know, back in the days when the Doctor was just a traveller who would wander into a situation and then do what he could to help, and no one blamed him when things went wrong because fixing the whole universe wasn't seen as his responsibility. The show has developed a strong sense of entitlement along the way, to the point where the Doctor is blamed whenever something happens that he couldn't prevent (you're good at saving people, so how dare you not manage to save everyone!), and that's been bad enough, but then...along comes an episode like this, where everyone just flat out gives up and decides they can't be bothered surviving, so that's that. And it gets all dressed up as Deep, Meaningful and Significant, presumably in hopes that no one will notice what a load of nonsense it is! Everyone was out of character, because the plot required Clara to have that exchange with the Doctor about not wanting to be the last of her kind, so everything building up to that moment had to be twisted to achieve it. Even though it made no sense at all.

And people wonder why I don't get on with the narrative style of the Moffat era.

We desperately need a showrunner who isn't a fan in the way that Moffat is. Someone who won't bring as much baggage to the job, who can take a step back, strip away the overcomplication of recent years and get the show back to basics. Because there is so much potential and elegance in the central concept of the show that's been buried beneath the weight of complicated plot arcs in recent years.

Date: 2014-10-26 10:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] issy5209.livejournal.com
My thoughts as well! Just...NO, why would you not try and save as many people as you can.

I'm also failing to see what the aim for the episode is supposed to be (other than Tree's are your friends and maybe you shouldn't medicate kids who hear voices) After watching the Doctor Who Extra for the previous episode, and hearing what Moffat has to say about travelling with the Doctor (its bad for you, for Clara is not changing in a good way) I get the feeling that the writers are all saying that change is bad, seeing and learning new things is bad, being scared or sad is bad, growing as a person is bad, once you've been a soldier like Danny, you don't need to see anything else. What a horrible message.

Date: 2014-10-27 09:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
I'm also failing to see what the aim for the episode is supposed to be
I agree. What was this episode actually about? It was a mess! High concept, but lacking in actual sense. Everyone was horrible, except the Doctor, who has been allowed to be lovely for a few episodes in a row now. I just wish he could haul himself away from the stifling mess that is Clara's story and regain his freedom.

I think he'd be great in a mentor-student relationship with a younger companion, a granddaughter figure, which would be a dynamic New Who fans haven't seen before. Some troubled kid with no home to go to who would benefit from the learning experience he could give, while drawing out the softer side beneath his crusty exterior. Clara is completely wrong for him.

I also really want the TARDIS to break so he can't control it any more, like in the old days - take away that element of control and let the show run free!

Moffat would never do it, though.

Date: 2014-10-27 10:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] issy5209.livejournal.com
I also really want the TARDIS to break so he can't control it any more, like in the old days -

now that would be awesome! Yes, get us back to the days where Tardis takes the Doctor where he needs to go, not where he wants to go. There would be so much scope, instead of this *thing* we're getting which is supposedly character development, but is more like regression. (I'm still with catsdownunder having Merlin flashbacks, because I'd never seen characters go from three, to two then to one dimensional before)

Date: 2014-10-27 10:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
I think part of the problem is that fans (and writers) have come to believe that it isn't possible to develop a character unless you explore every detail of their backstory - which in Doctor Who terms has come to mean meeting their parents, visiting their childhood, spending extended periods of time in their home environment. I've actually seen posters on forums claiming that no classic companions have any personality at all, because we don't know their family backstories, and how can they have a personality if we don't know their biographical details in full? Seriously. It's an attitude that completely misses the point of what personality and character development actually are. Backstory is simply one tool that can be used to explore different facets of a character's personality, and isn't actually essential. It would be perfectly possible to introduce a character in one episode, exploring the homelife they come from in that story (a la Rose or Smith & Jones), and then whisk them away and never go back there again (or make contact) and still develop that character in all kinds of meaningful ways that would be much fresher and freer than the nonsense we've seen with Clara, whose characterisation and homelife remain little more than skin deep. It just requires commitment to telling a character story that actually is a character story and not an artificially contrived plot grafted onto them and disguised as a character story.

I sometimes look at the potential in the companion stories of the classic era and long to see development of similar stories today, but it'll never happen under Moffat.

Date: 2014-10-27 10:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] issy5209.livejournal.com
That's true, and I think it shows that for Moffat, and his band of writers, Clara (and Danny AND the Doctor) is still an idea, and he can graft whatever he wants to see happen, or see her behave from one week to the next. (or I suspect just write stories around what sort of scenes he wants to see, never mind that is doesn't make any sense or is consistent in anyway)
I understand from an actors point of view, creating a backstory, is important to them to play the character, but as viewers, we don't really need to see it.

Looking at next week, I'm sort of hoping that none of this is real, perhaps the whole earth is Earth Mark 2, possibly paid for by a intelligent mice to find out the question to the answer of Life, The Universe and Everything,
either that, or she's a Tesselecter, if she's the Master, The Rani, or the Great Intelligence, and Danny's been put by her side to manipulate her somehow, I'll be so annoyed!

Date: 2014-10-27 10:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
I'm sort of hoping that none of this is real, perhaps the whole earth is Earth Mark 2, possibly paid for by a intelligent mice to find out the question to the answer of Life, The Universe and Everything

Hahaha, I like it, I'm adopting it as my headcanon. :D

Actually, that's one of the things I like about Doctor Who. The Show doesn't really have any official canon, but what it does have are lots of separate canons and a central mythology that includes the concepts of time travel and alternate universes, so whenever anything happens that doesn't jibe with my own vision of the show, I just handwave it into an alternate universe and tell myself it never happened really! The entire Steven Moffat era never happened really, any more than the Lungbarrow novels did!

Date: 2014-10-26 11:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byslantedlight.livejournal.com
remember when Doctor Who was a show whose brief was to introduce some real science and history to the children watching?
I do appreciate that this was one of the original aims of the show, but I must admit I've never ever thought of Doctor Who as being about that! Even the first eps completely made it up about the neanderthals etc. - neither real science nor history, except perhaps the media version (even for their time). Make kids aware of the joys and adventure of science and history maybe... *g* I watch DW for the imagination and whoosh of it, not because I expect to see actual science on there - or even history!

So I'm not perhaps not as down on this ep as you are from that pov - and I didn't at all mind the twinkly-light trees (though I wish they'd been matched up a bit with the ones from that Christmas special a few years ago, or even perhaps nanogenes), and I actually like fairy-tales-are-based-on-reality type explanations - I can take them from the other side, that the fairy-tales are based on this "science". I can "fix" some of the other gaps as well - how many times has the Earth been devastated on DW, and the next time we see it it's all fixed? Apparently we're just really good at that... *g* (And they nodded towards the way we all forget things like that so easily too, which isn't believable, but it's DW and it really is supposed to be the opposite of reality, it's the escape, so I can go with that.)

But......I must say I agree with you about the other things. If it was London, where was everyone? I've never bought Clara as a teacher, because no matter how much she protests out loud she doesn't act like a teacher. In fact you might take the kids out with you to try and find your way back to safety, if you judged it was more dangerous to stay where you were, and I can buy that Danny was 10ft away from the tiger before he saw it - it was jungly there! - but I can't buy that none of the kids screamed and startled it before he got his torch out! And when Clara and Danny were taking the kids together, you wouldn't both walk at the front, one of you'd take the back to make sure you didn't lose any of them! And she fluctuates far too much between "ooh, but adventure" and "put the poor kids in danger how will they cope?" etc...

I'm at the point - potentially confirmed by the trailer for next week - that Clara still isn't really real, and that's why she doesn't get anything, and that Danny's not really real either, but has been sent in as some kind of confusing set-up by Missy... I liked the taunting glance we got of Osgood in the trailer too, and (like many other people!) wonder if she's Clara's flip/split side, which would explain all Clara's annoyances too. But even if that's true, then it's backfired a bit, cos there are so many people who don't seem to like Clara! Or maybe that's just in the (admittedly limited!) circles I hang out in, cos I keep seeing reviews from people who seem to like her in the more national media. Anyway - I'm looking forward to finding out next week!

Date: 2014-10-27 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
do appreciate that this was one of the original aims of the show, but I must admit I've never ever thought of Doctor Who as being about that! Even the first eps completely made it up about the neanderthals etc. - neither real science nor history, except perhaps the media version (even for their time). Make kids aware of the joys and adventure of science and history maybe... *g* I watch DW for the imagination and whoosh of it, not because I expect to see actual science on there - or even history!
Heh. I was mostly just stressing the point of how far the show has diverged from its original brief. There was actually a lot of teaching in the early seasons - a lot of guff, too, because that's how storytelling works, but viewers would also learn real stuff. Even into the '70s and '80s it was still a science fiction show, even if the science was made up half the time. And then today we have magic trees and moon eggs hatching into space dragons - this era is more fantasy than science fiction, and...I love the imagination and whoosh of it as well, but I just would rather science fiction than fantasy in this setting - I've never enjoyed the fairytale styling of the Moffat era. And although Moffat loves to throw in little references to the past, his stuff feels very disconnected from the larger continuity of the show in general, in large part due to his 'history can be re-written' conceit, which has been overplayed.

Clara and Danny both proved themselves to be absolutely lousy teachers in this episode - well, we've seen them being lousy at their jobs before, but they were appallling here. Maebh managed to get out of a locked museum and halfway across London and they didn't even notice she was gone until they were told - and they kept losing her and not noticing, throughout. They didn't do a single head count while trekking through the unexpected jungle, they failed to position themselves around the children appropriately - Danny was more focused on the children than Clara was, but both failed abysmally in their duty of care, long before they decided it would be better for the children to die than survive and have to deal with grief. Awful message. It made me think of the solar flare survivors of The Ark in Space, carrying with them the weight of the world, knowing that they owed it to the billions who died to keep the human race alive - schlocky '70s production values notwithstanding, the story dealt with the concept with such elegance compared to this mawkish fatalism which I'm pretty sure was contrived purely so that Clara could have that exchange with the Doctor about not wanting to be the last of her kind.

I watched the trailer for next week (I don't usually) and it just left me wondering why the hell we've been watching Clara for the past season and a half if she isn't even real. I'm sure there will be a twist, but I'm also sure it won't justify the way Clara's story has stifled the entire season. I would glady sacrifice a 'blockbuster' season finale for the sake of a likeable companion who got on well with the Doctor and who I could root for along the way. Over-complicated arcs do more harm than good, imo.

Date: 2014-10-26 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] percysowner.livejournal.com
I very quickly decided I had to turn my brain off for this one. I figured out that the trees were helping, but I didn't see the unexpected solar flare that the Tardis didn't know was coming bit. I just figured the trees had had it with global warming and were taking over and going to clean the CO2 out no matter what God Damn It! Then Clara got all if you can't save them all then save a few and "I'm No! That's Donna." (Although I tend to think Donna would have been demanding that the Doctor bop around London and pick up the kids mothers in the time before the solar flare. I am unrepentantly a Donna lover.) But I was okay with it until Clara suddenly and for no good reason decided to not only let the kids die, but to die with them because "they will miss their Mums?" If I was one of their Mums and I found out a teacher had the ability to save my child's life and she decided never mind? I would be furious. Then we had magical trees who can sense epic disaster, but who don't care about global warming.

I was also less than thrilled with the show supporting the idea that the mentally ill should not be treated. Just listen to them does not help the guy ranting at the bus station, living under a bridge. And the sister suddenly showing up after six months so Maebh could have a happy ending. Oddly for all this rant, I didn't hate the episode because, as I said, I pretty well switched off my brain and drank a glass of wine.

Date: 2014-10-27 10:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
Yes to all of this. Like I said, as a runaround it was middling, but the moment you actually think about any of it, it all falls apart and reveals itself to be pretentious and frankly unpleasant nonsense.

I want better than this for Doctor Who!

Date: 2014-10-26 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I thought quite a lot of it very implausible, but have been watching this series and for most of the last without being drawn into much of the plot development. I don't especially dislike Clara but don't really like her either.

I was however highly impressed with the magical juggling she managed with the pink and white phones - she switched them from left hand to right and back again several times!

Carol

Date: 2014-10-27 10:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llywela13.livejournal.com
LOL continuity fail!

Last week the Doctor's haircut changed between one scene and the next...

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