Heh, I'm nowhere near as fluent as I used to be - just don't get the opportunity to use the language these days! Still, watching Codi Canu (new Welsh language reality docu about choirs) every week for the next while in hopes of catching a glimpse of femsc might help a bit with that. And it does me good to cobble a few sentences together every now and then (although I'm pretty sure I screwed up some of the mutations above...)
The English and Welsh languages have absolutely no relationship with one another whatsoever, which is why it is so difficult for English speakers to learn Welsh - the grammar and phonetics just have nothing in common at all. So I'm not surprised you found it a struggle!
Oh, phew! Because I picked up conversational Afrikaans no problemo, so I'm glad it wasn't just that I'm pathetic that meant my workmate threw her hands up in despair!
...and now I'm remembering this chap I met from Lesotho one time. There's a town in mid Wales called Machynlleth, which is apparently the hardest Welsh name for an English person to say, but he could say it absolutely perfectly, because they have the ch and ll sounds in that language, too!
Ha, yes! Afrikaans is much more European than African, hence my ability to pick it up, I guess? Xhosa and Zulu (and Welsh!!!) were WAY out of my league!
I'm surprised Machynlleth is supposed to the hardest Welsh name - how do people cope with Rhosllanerchrugog, Talyllychau and Ynysybwl? Never mind LlanfairPG, which trips up so many people because they put the wrong emphasis on the ogogoch bit at the end...
I think it is something about the combination of ll and ch - and probably applies to any word that has 'em both! Although in Machynlleth they are very close together, adding to the level of difficulty...
I learned to say LlanfairPG in full when I visited as a youngster, and remain proud of that accomplishment to that day!
Yep, I was taught it when I was about 9, I think. It was many years later that someone pointed the ending out to me, and explained why "gogogoch" when said that way was completely and utterly wrong. Unfortunately, some habits are hard to break and I still find myself putting the first 'g' on the beginning of that section instead of at the end of the previous one.
That's Mrs Bagpuss, in fact! And my very lovely friend who you would probably get along with like a house on fire, seeing as how you are both, in fact, very lovely *G*
Google Translate is useful, but not necessarily to be relied on. Odd omissions from Lampeter university's on-line dictionary include 'rehearse' (meaning practise; the word they give is more like 'saying again') and 'rehearsal'.
I do so like to have my proper Geiriadur Mawr in front of me when attempting significant sentences in Welsh, so I can check my vocabulary back and forth in either directions to be absolutely sure of it - if I don't have that, I'm more likely to just switch back into English than risk using the wrong word!
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2010-10-13 10:50 am (UTC)She failed to make ANY in-roads!
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Date: 2010-10-13 11:06 am (UTC)The English and Welsh languages have absolutely no relationship with one another whatsoever, which is why it is so difficult for English speakers to learn Welsh - the grammar and phonetics just have nothing in common at all. So I'm not surprised you found it a struggle!
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Date: 2010-10-13 11:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-13 11:44 am (UTC)Ah linguistics, you are so complex!
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Date: 2010-10-13 11:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 01:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 07:21 pm (UTC)I learned to say LlanfairPG in full when I visited as a youngster, and remain proud of that accomplishment to that day!
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Date: 2010-10-15 12:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-13 01:22 pm (UTC):D ;)
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Date: 2010-10-13 01:39 pm (UTC)There's only one person needs to actually understand this post ;)
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Date: 2010-10-14 01:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 01:29 pm (UTC)Means I must have got it semi-right, at least, although I'm still not sure about some of those mutations...
*must practice vocab and grammar*
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Date: 2010-10-14 04:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-15 12:09 pm (UTC)*hands over tissues*
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Date: 2010-10-13 09:09 pm (UTC)[[Only Welsh contribution I can make]]
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Date: 2010-10-14 01:30 pm (UTC)Cwtches right back atcha!
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Date: 2010-10-14 04:38 pm (UTC)ambiwlans car tren bws snwcr
cwcw tacsi bag mi garej anthem help toiled... See? You *can* speak Welshish!
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Date: 2010-10-14 07:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-13 09:43 pm (UTC)Yr wyf yn denau efallai y byddaf yn defnyddio cyfieithydd am gymorth gan fod y gair yn unig yr wyf yn gwybod yn cwtch.
;)
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Date: 2010-10-14 01:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 10:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 01:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 08:38 pm (UTC)Ah! Diolch yn fawr, Jo ;)
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Date: 2010-10-14 01:18 pm (UTC)Os fydda i'n gweld fy meibion a fi, caf i screenprints am bostio yma.
Phew!
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Date: 2010-10-14 01:28 pm (UTC)*vocabulary gives up at this point*
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Date: 2010-10-14 04:43 pm (UTC)http://translate.google.com/#
http://www.geiriadur.net/
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Date: 2010-10-14 07:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-15 12:11 pm (UTC)(note to self - find Geiriadur Mawr; use same)