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llywelaUm. So, this recap got rather, um...long. I'm not really sure how that happened! I started writing, and then all of a sudden there were more pages than I had ever written about an episode before.
So. Here it is: so many pages I'm not even going to tell you the count, in which I rattle on at length about self-referential internal meta, the awesomeness of Sam and Dean, data protection, the awesomeness of the Prophet Chuck, the formation of mythology and folklore (what? It's totally relevant), Show's ongoing exploration of destiny versus free will, the brothers' fumblings attempts at pretending things are normal between them, the joys of domesticity, the consequences of Sam's lies, Dean's lack of faith in his brother, objectivity, flight versus strategic retreat, role reversal and the brothers' massive difference in outlook, the pros and cons of confronting Lilith, Dean's protective big brother instincts, Sam's conflicted motivations, Chuck as a counsellor, the ludicrousy of the Winchester Gospel concept, prophets in the Supernatural universe, the desperation of both brothers, Castiel being deliciously devious, why Lilith is such an ineffectual adversary, and lots more beside.
To read the recap, click the link below. But you might want to put the kettle on first!
"Self-sacrifice is the Winchester way, after all."
Screencaps found at Screencap Paradise and![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
marishna.
Do let me know if you actually read the whole thing, and I will award you virtual cookies and gold stars!
So. Here it is: so many pages I'm not even going to tell you the count, in which I rattle on at length about self-referential internal meta, the awesomeness of Sam and Dean, data protection, the awesomeness of the Prophet Chuck, the formation of mythology and folklore (what? It's totally relevant), Show's ongoing exploration of destiny versus free will, the brothers' fumblings attempts at pretending things are normal between them, the joys of domesticity, the consequences of Sam's lies, Dean's lack of faith in his brother, objectivity, flight versus strategic retreat, role reversal and the brothers' massive difference in outlook, the pros and cons of confronting Lilith, Dean's protective big brother instincts, Sam's conflicted motivations, Chuck as a counsellor, the ludicrousy of the Winchester Gospel concept, prophets in the Supernatural universe, the desperation of both brothers, Castiel being deliciously devious, why Lilith is such an ineffectual adversary, and lots more beside.
To read the recap, click the link below. But you might want to put the kettle on first!
"Self-sacrifice is the Winchester way, after all."
Screencaps found at Screencap Paradise and
marishna.Do let me know if you actually read the whole thing, and I will award you virtual cookies and gold stars!
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-18 12:49 pm (UTC)While Sam has been drawn as Fabio
Okay, I cave. I’ve read that a couple of times, but who the hell is Fabio?!
Sam thinks Dean is too cautious since his return from hell. Dean thinks Sam is not cautious enough since his time alone. Sam wants Dean to be more gung-ho. Dean wants Sam to be less gung-ho.
It’s also a complete reversal from their PoVs in S3, where Dean felt he had nothing to lose and was the reckless one and Sam reigned him in for not being cautious enough. Nowadays Sam thinks he has nothing to lose and wants it to end by all means, no matter the cost, while Dean is the cautious one, because he thinks he might lose Sam, and this time for good.
Chuck sees something happening, and that is what makes it inevitable.
Hm, not quite. As you said earlier, it happens because it already happened, from God’s point of view. It’s simply a record of something that already has come to pass, because God already has seen Dean making his choices. It’s not that it becomes inevitable, because Chuck has seen it (meaning Chuck seeing it manifests the course of action), but rather the other way round, Chuck sees it, because the choice has already been made.
Overall I’ve come to the conclusion that we have to make a distinction between prophecy and destiny/fate. The prophecy is the word of God, a prediction about what is going to happen, based on the fact that God is all-knowing. God has seen past, present and future, he knows how a person decides in a given situation, but that doesn't mean that he interferes with it or that the individual had no real choice in that decision. So, in a way the prophecy is simply a record of something God has already seen come to pass, relayed to an unknowing recipient, and as such it is completely in accordance with the postulate of free will. It’s also in accordance with the discrepancies we see in this episode between the written word and the vision Chuck receives, the human factor is an unstable factor in the prophecy, but that doesn’t change the accuracy of the prophecy itself.
Fate, on the other hand, states that no matter the choices, the end result will always be the same, rather than the end result being the logical conclusion of a certain choice. That’s what we see when Dean tries to avert the prophecy by doing everything opposite. In these instances the episode seems to say that prophecy and fate are the same thing and that's more difficult to consolidate with free will, and I think that’s the part where Supernatural becomes increasingly murky. Does that make sense? Man, this is confusing!
When he was alone with Chuck we saw his fear, but in front of Dean there is nothing but bravado.
Ha, and if that isn’t all Dean I don’t know what is. Sam might not have always have the best grip on who his brother is, but that one he learned from the master! *g*
Does the power Ruby gives Sam wear off after a while?
Well, that’s implied in Heaven and Hell, when Ruby tells Sam that his powers got flubby ever since he stopped drinking her blood. It seems that it is only temporary.
Stalemate. It is actually kind of awesome that these two are both so very powerful, and yet cancel one another out, so that their big showdown sees them reduced to trading verbal blows.
Exactly! And that has to be where Dean comes into play, no? I figure he has to be the one how tips the scale and I can’t wait to find out how!
no subject
Date: 2009-04-18 03:25 pm (UTC)Yeah. I know. I worded it clumsily. It isn't the act of him seeing it that makes it inevitable, but the fact of him seeing it. If Chuck sees it, that's it, set in stone, because what he sees is a record of the future, not a mere possibility. But, of course, since he is viewing from the outside, his interpretation of what he sees can cause fuzzy areas - a bit like if I was to stand outside someone's window and watch them going about their daily business. I could describe what I saw, and it would be true, but I wouldn't necessarily interpret everything correctly!
Does that make sense? Man, this is confusing!
It is VERY confusing! But yes, your analysis makes perfect sense, very well reasoned.
who the hell is Fabio?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabio_(model)
http://www.fabioinc.com/
(too lazy to make a proper link)
that’s implied in Heaven and Hell, when Ruby tells Sam that his powers got flubby ever since he stopped drinking her blood. It seems that it is only temporary.
*nods* I'm just not sure how that ties in with the 22 year incubation period after the initial ingestion of the YED's blood, and the fact that practice then made the powers stronger - Andy was proof of that. So I'm wondering why Ruby's blood works differently. Curious!
that has to be where Dean comes into play, no? I figure he has to be the one how tips the scale and I can’t wait to find out how!
YES!
no subject
Date: 2009-04-18 04:04 pm (UTC)Okay, now I understand why everybody jumped on the Sam=Fabio wagon for the covers. LOL
I'm just not sure how that ties in with the 22 year incubation period.
Uh-huh. Show needs to be careful to not undermine its own mythology. This season especially they deliver new facts and developments that put everything we know so far into question. I don't expect them to come out completely consistent in the end, but I would be grateful if they come up at least with some explanations.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-18 06:38 pm (UTC)