New Show!!!

[llywela]

This has been kind of a stressful and depressing week, overall. I'm not going to talk about that, though, because season four of Supernatural started today (yeah, okay, last night - but it was today for me!) And that was absolutely the best kind of distraction I could hope for. :-)

I intended to just scribble down a few thoughts as first reaction...but my brain had other ideas, and once the meta started it just never seemed to end! Read on if you dare. *G*

Lazarus Rising
"We have a pile of questions and no shovel."

Okay, first thought: whoa. And whoa. And…WHOA. Awesome. Intense. Intriguing. Just…whoa. Mytharcical whoa.

Lots of thinky thoughts coming out of this one! Already. Overriding the meep and squee, even! Please bear with me while I think aloud for a moment…

A little Bible study. The Book of John tells the story of Lazarus, a friend of Jesus Christ, who lived in a town called Bethany. One day, John tells us, Lazarus became seriously ill, and his sisters Mary and Martha immediately sent word to Jesus, believing he could heal their brother. However, Jesus delayed setting out for Bethany for two full days, and when at last he reached the home of his friend, Lazarus was already dead and buried. "If you had been here, my brother would not have died," Mary chided, and Jesus wept. Deeply moved, he ordered the stone be rolled away from the tomb and then called to the dead man to come out. And Lazarus walked out of the tomb alive, still wearing his burial shroud.

"I'm the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition."

So, this episode is called 'Lazarus Rising', for fairly obvious reasons. The parallels between the story of Lazarus and Dean's experience are striking. Lazarus had sisters who loved him and wanted him to live. Dean has a brother who loves him and wants him to live. Lazarus, having had his life restored, walked out of his tomb unaided. Dean, having had his life restored, climbed out of his grave unaided. Each had his life restored by an outside agent: Lazarus was brought back to life by Jesus as a demonstration of his Godhood, and Dean…? Well, if we take this episode at face value, it seems that Dean was brought back to life by an angel because God has a job for him to do. A modern day miracle.

Now, I'm always rather uncomfortable whenever a TV show (or film) starts to play around with Christian theology. Or any other kind of religious theology, for that matter, just that Christianity is the one I know best. But let's face it: Supernatural has been heading in this direction for quite some time now, so this development really shouldn't be that much of a surprise, when you stop and think about it. And yet it comes completely out of left field and leaves absolutely everyone gasping.

But is everything quite what it seems? Well, that remains to be seen. Is Castiel genuine, is he twisting the truth, or is he outright lying? On this show, it is never safe to take anything at face value, that much experience has taught us, so we shall have to share Dean's scepticism, at least until further evidence is forthcoming.

For now, though, let us look back. In Faith, way back in season one when Dean had his very first miraculous healing, the captive reaper was controlled by Sue Ann – but it was the genuinely devout Roy le Grange who chose Dean, out of all the needy people in his tent that day, to be healed. "A young man with an important purpose. A job to do. And it isn't finished," was how he described Dean, when called upon to explain his decision. "Because God commanded it. Because we have work for you," is how Castiel explains Dean's resurrection in this episode. Same song, different verse – or is Castiel simply employing a line he thinks likely to convince Dean? Is he really doing God's will, or has he struck out on his own, for whatever reason?

We could also look back to Houses of the Holy, in season two. "I like to think of them as more loving than wrathful," Father Reynolds rather hopefully said, before agreeing with Sam that Scripture in fact describes angels more as God's warriors. And we all remember that the 'angel' of that episode turned out to be merely a misguided spirit. Traditionally, we remember, the devil began life as an angel, cast out of heaven for refusing to bow to man – the demon Casey told Dean that story in Sin City last season. So far, the pieces are all fitting together. But whether the picture they make will eventually resemble the story Castiel is telling…well, only time will tell.

Castiel is kind of cool; the actor does a really good job, coming across as wonderfully ambiguous. But there is certainly nothing benign about him. He might not kill Bobby – there'd be no forgiveness for that! – but he does blind Pamela, however inadvertently, and seems to have no compunction whatsoever killing human hosts just for the sake of putting the frighteners on those demons that Sam follows to town. Also…angels can possess people? Like demons? Well, if the devil started out as an angel, cast out of heaven, that figures, I suppose. I like that Dean takes this as a black mark against the so-called angel. Claiming consent is all well and good, but Castiel still allowed the host body to be stabbed through the heart – it's a very fine line to be treading, that kind of power. If he really is an angel, he certainly seems more in line with the wrathful Old Testament variety than the loving and peaceful version seen singing praises (although still terrifying folk) in the New! So for now, the jury remains out.


Dean
"Whatever this is, whatever it wants, it's after me. That much we know, right? I've got no place to hide. I can either get caught with my pants down again, or we can make our stand."

Dean's return from the dead is a wonderful mystery with which to open the new season – so much more effective than the oh-so lame seven deadly sins last year! The tension that inevitably results from this mystery is really, really well done, affecting each character differently. And lo! it is all so, so good.

Man, I love the opening sequence of Dean waking up in his coffin. First with the flashes of bloody eyes and screaming – flashes of hell, way more effective than anything graphic could be – and then gasping awake, struggling to breathe, having to fight his way out of the coffin. I love that of course he gets a face full of soil as he shoves the lid open, but has no choice but to keep going, keep digging his way up, air running out and all. It's been done before, obviously, the concept of digging his way out of his grave, but still very effectively pulled off here. And whoa, the flattened trees circling the grave. When we know, from past experience, just how much Dean knows what a tremendously bad sign that is.

I really love that Dean is so hoarse when he first wakes up, and it takes quite some time for his thrashed voice to recover – he still sounds husky when he reaches Bobby's. Could be because he's been dead for four months, voice box unused…or it could be because he's been in hell screaming in agony for four months, voice over-used. It's a really nice touch, added to how the first thing he does when he finds the gas station is chug back a bottle of water. He's been walking in the hot sun for some time; he's been rotting in the ground for some months; he's been burning in hell for some months: whichever way you look at it, he needs that water!

I can't help wondering why Sam picked that particular place to bury him, I must admit. He died in Indiana. So why take him to Illinois for burial? Random? Or not? Curious.

Okay, continuing the saga of love for this opening sequence, I love that we have a date, right off the bat – 18 September 2008. Dean's been dead for four months, we are told. And this fits my timeline perfectly! People, ignore the Superwiki timeline because it is wrong. Use mine instead! *pokes* Ahem. I love that Dean checks his body for scars, because the last thing he remembers is being ripped to shreds by a hellhound. The scars are gone, unlike the last two occasions – both Dean and Sam still bore the scars of their fatal wounds for a while after the demonic deals that saved their lives in season two. Interesting.

I'm so happy that Team Supernatural remembered Dean's tattoo! And it is intact! Oh, but the handprint brands are way ominous, nicely setting up the mystery that runs right through the episode: who was it that pulled Dean out of hell, and why? By the end of the episode we have an answer to the first part of that question, but the second is likely to take rather more explaining before all is fully understood.

Dean doesn't remember hell, yet, and I love that Sam can't resist asking and is so relieved to hear of the memory blank. But he's already having flashes of memory – and boy, those are way creepier than any full-on representation of torture could ever be, so I hope the show continues to keep it vague, for viewers at least, however much Dean begins to recall – so it seems safe to say that there is returning memory, trauma and angst still to come in that department.

"So you get to just stroll out of the pit, huh? Tell me – what makes you so special?"
"I like to think it's because of my perky nipples."

Heh. So, the demon doesn't believe that Dean doesn't know, and Dean doesn't believe that the demon doesn't know – it all adds up to a tangled web of mystery and tension. "You don't know who cut me loose…and you're just as spooked as we are. […] Whoever it was, they want me out. And they're a lot stronger than you."

It's fascinating to see how right he is – no matter the provocation, and in contrast to her threats, the demon doesn't lift a finger against him, and neither do either of her companions. They're scared. Curiouser and curiouser! How long can this last, I wonder – surely Dean can't possibly get through the entire season with the demon population of the world too scared to touch him. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

But I wonder: is Lilith going to be pissed that her prize has been stolen, or does she maybe have rather more pressing matters on her mind and has long since ceased to care about the fact that Dean Winchester sold his soul to her fair and square? One thing's for sure: there are a hell of a lot of conflicting forces in play now. The writing team have certainly got their hands full pulling all those miscellaneous threads together.

I really love that having been so steely and confident while facing off with the demon, Dean is so relieved when they get outside. He's very good at appearing more confident than he really is, and I like having tiny moments that demonstrate this. It is great to see how very much on form he is in this episode – he was so badly beaten down by the events of seasons two and three, but seems to have come through it all stronger than ever. However worried he is about what happened, and however traumatic his returning memories might be, he seems to believe in himself now in a way we haven't seen since the early days of season one. I just hope that this self-belief will continue to grow rather than withering away once more.

"This is your problem, Dean. You have no faith."

Still, Dean might believe in himself a little more these days, but that doesn't mean a statement like "I'm an angel of the Lord" is going to go over well. *G* Dean does not believe in angels and he doesn't want to believe in angels, because he has seen too much evil going unchecked. It's a solid, consistent character point…one that has been reiterated often enough that hindsight says maybe it should have been obvious that such disbelief would be more seriously challenged at some point, whatever Kripke might have said about not delving into angelic mythology on the show! So if Castiel is for real, Dean is going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that there is a good reason for that lack of divine intervention – and an even better reason for stepping in now.

Man, it's creepy to see the EVP and whatnot following Dean around, though; no wonder he's so very spooked. No coincidence, of course, that the moment he is alone – for the first time since he reached Bobby – the 'angel' tries to contact him again, resulting in a lot of broken glass and bleeding ears. Scary stuff, and I really like that Castiel admits to making a mistake there. "Certain people, special people, can perceive my true visage. I thought you would be one of them. I was wrong."

Kinda makes me wonder if maybe Sam will turn out to be one of those special people able to look upon that true visage? Because Sam's always had his super specialness going for him, whereas Dean's selling point has always been that he isn't special. So will Sam's psychic mojo and/or demon blood be a plus or minus in this regard, I wonder?

Anyway, the point is that, whatever he is, Castiel is not all-knowing. I really like that he seems to be figuring Dean out throughout their conversation, as if he was given a name and task but not much else to go on. It all adds to the impression of him as foot soldier rather than puppet-master. And, given the power this foot soldier has already demonstrated…whoa is that a scary thought!

Also, those shadowy crow's wings? Wicked!

"Why would an angel rescue me from hell?"
"Good things do happen, Dean."
"Not in my experience."
"What's the matter? You don't think you deserve to be saved."
"Why'd you do it?"
"Because God commanded it. Because we have work for you."

Yeah, somehow, this being Supernatural, that is not comforting at all!


Sam
"I don't know if what I'm doing is right. […] But what I do know is I'm saving people. Stopping demons. And that feels good. I wanna keep going."

If Castiel is for real, if Dean has been brought back from hell by divine intervention, then surely the reason why has to revolve around Sam. It's all about Sam – it's always been all about Sam. Dean's whole life has revolved around his little brother, and so did his death, so why should his resurrection be any different? One thing that seems clear from this episode is that Sammy is in a very bad place indeed right now, hardly surprising after everything he's been through, sliding down a very slippery slope toward possible damnation. And if it does turn out that he is heading toward his intended role as 'anti-Christ', leader of a demon army, without even realising it, the cosmic scales tilting a little too far in favour of evil…well, then, maybe that's a very good reason for a little divine intervention, bringing back the one person who stands any chance of redeeming him.

It's possible. But it is just one theory among many possible theories, and only time will tell.

Sam's role in this episode is really rather low-key and subdued, and that fits well with his conflicted state of mind. Oh man, his face when he sees Dean for the first time is just perfect – absolute shock and devastation and disbelief. And the confrontation is perfect – Sam not believing that it is Dean, Dean believing that Sam did something to bring him back…

"So, what – now I'm off the hook and you're on, is that it? You're some demon's bitch-boy? I didn't want to be saved like this."
"Look, Dean, I wish I had done it. All right?"
"There's no other way that this could have gone down – now tell the truth!"
"I tried everything, that's the truth. I tried opening the devil's gate. Hell, I tried to bargain, Dean, but no demon would deal. All right? You were rotting in hell. For months. For months. And I couldn't stop it. So I'm sorry it wasn't me, all right? Dean, I'm sorry."
"It's okay, Sammy. You don't have to apologise. I believe you."

Oh, boys.

It should be the single best moment of Sam's life, receiving such a miracle…but nothing is ever that simple. Sam loves his brother more than anything. He wanted him back, wanted him out of hell and out of pain. But he had conceded defeat. He'd accepted that Dean was gone for good and he'd moved on – moved on in ways that he knew Dean wouldn't approve of. As a result, having Dean back in his life can't be clean and simple. There is relief and there is delight and there is joy, but there is also guilt and deception and awkwardness and tension. And that's how it should be – for Dean's death to have its full meaning, there has to be payoff. On this show, life does not come cheap – there is always a price to be paid. Right now, the price being paid by the Winchesters for Dean's resurrection is the fracture of the intensely close bond he and his brother had shared.

"What don't I know about that kid?" Dean says of Sam to Bobby. Good question. Dean knows Sam inside out, can predict which alias he'll be using – Wedge Antilles? Oh, Sam – but at the same time, he no longer knows his brother at all. They have been apart for four months, four months that Dean currently has no recollection of but that Sam had to live through, every agonising moment, and it changed him. No question. It just remains to be seen how long it will take Dean to realise just how much his brother has changed. How long it will take for the gloss of Dean's return to wear off and grim reality begin to set in.

"What did it cost?"
"The girl? I don't pay, Dean."

Well, the girl in the motel room should be Dean's first clue that Sam isn't quite the brother he left behind – Sam never used to bring girls home when Dean was alive! Sam's reaction is adorable, once he's over the shock of Dean being alive – pure teenager whose parents have sprung him with a girl in his room, squirming and trying to tell himself not to be embarrassed…. But then there's the reveal that this wasn't just a random girl after all. It was Ruby – definitely the same girl, right? And that changes everything.

For one thing…well, the obvious implication of the scantily clad girl in Sam's room is that he is sleeping with her. Fair enough if it is just a girl he brought home from a bar someplace, two consenting adults and all. But Ruby is a demon. She might consent, but the girl whose body she is using can't. Would Sam really do that? Because that is dark. Wrong.

So maybe they are just sharing a motel room, then, living together just as Sam and Dean have always lived together on the road. More convenient for them both. Either way, it implies very clearly just how comfortable Sam has become with her – Dean left a massive hole in his life, and Ruby was well placed to slide in and fill it, whispering seductive comfort in his ear, maybe encouraging him to cut off all contact with Bobby, who was the closest thing he had left to family. And that's troubling.

It's also troubling because Sam lies outright to Dean's face about Ruby. He lies by omission when she is in the room, Ruby acting dumb to reinforce the impression that she is a casual conquest and Sam playing along without so much as blinking. And he lies again later, when Dean asks what happened to Ruby and Sam tells him she is dead. It is scary how good of a liar he is, and that Dean absolutely cannot tell. Ruby clearly has Sam's ear, and a lot more of his trust than he is prepared to admit, even to himself. And I still don't trust her intentions in the slightest.

It is troubling to see Sam brushing the recent past off so lightly when Bobby points out that he never returned any calls, the way he just shrugs he should have called but was pretty messed up, like it's no big deal – it seems that he has been way off the rails with only a demon for guidance, and now that he unexpectedly has these more positive, human influences back in his life he's off balance and back-pedalling.

"Once I figured out I couldn't save you, I started hunting down Lilith, trying to get some pay back." And he says it so casually. That's maybe the scariest part. "All by yourself. Who do you think you are, your old man?" Nice one, Bobby. Touché. Sam has been getting more and more like his father as the seasons go by – John was also very good at convincing himself that he was doing the right thing, no matter what.

Because Sam is using his psychic powers to hunt and destroy demons. He's using his psychic powers to hunt and destroy demons under Ruby's guidance – the way they both talk about what they've been doing, it is very much a partnership. And he's not only using his psychic powers to hunt and destroy demons, but he is lying about it. No misleads or half-truths here; he outright lies to Dean's face. Trying to find the right moment, he says to Ruby later, but there is no right moment and he knows it. He doesn't want to tell Dean because he knows how he will react – the right moment would have been when Dean asked him straight out.

"You didn't want me to go down that road, so I didn't go down that road. It was practically your dying wish."

It is kind of frustrating that the scene in the car is so dark, as Dean asks Sam how he escaped from Lilith and Sam 'fesses up to his immunity, but it is also kind of fitting that it is so murky as Sam out and out lies to Dean, both about Ruby and about his powers – he even looks Dean in the eye as he says it. He's way defensive, as well, sounding so outraged at the suggestion, even as he lies. Yeah, Sam is in a very bad place.

And, man, sneaking out in the middle of the night to get his own way having been overruled earlier – it is so Sam. I thought he'd grown past that. In Time Is On My Side he stood up for his own convictions, demonstrated that he was an adult capable of making his own decisions, equal partner rather than subordinate, taking orders from no one. But then here he is again, sneaking away in the night like a rebellious teenager. It just goes to show how uncertain he is of the rightness of his actions. But he doesn't want to stop, and that feels very dangerous.

Dean believes Sam when he claims to have gone out for a burger – that's the third time in this episode Sam has lied to him outright, and Dean hasn't been able to tell. This time, though, he knows that Sam left behind the demon-killing knife, so has no reason to suspect that he'd go after the demons alone. And Dean lies, as well, about what he's doing. He's been back all of two days, and already he and his brother are so very divided – their balance has been well and truly shattered, and it is going to take time to rebuild. It hurts, seeing such a gulf between them. And yet it feels right – after everything that's happened, things can't be how they were.

Sam's shiny new demon-extracting power is very scary. It's like he just crushes the demon right out of the body. He believes he is saving people, and sure, he saved anyone else from being killed by that demon, but until I see a host survive the process I won't be convinced. I mean, he expresses regret that the host doesn't survive, but doesn't seem surprised. And he was already way past the point of being overly troubled by collateral damage in S3, well and truly into the realms of the end justifying the means. And…just look at Ava. And Jake. Unlocking these powers has never been a good thing in the past, and surely can't be now, which is why Dean has always been so dead set against it. And Ava didn't have a demon coaching her.

"Sam, he's going to find out, and if it's not from you, he's going to be pissed."
"He's gonna be pissed anyway. He's so hard-headed about this psychic stuff, he'll just try and stop me."
"I'm not exactly in your brother's fan club. But he is your brother. And I'm not going to come between you."

That's a curious line for Ruby to be taking, and a worrying line for Sam to be taking. Dean being back has certainly complicated things for them both, well and truly disrupted whatever little set up they had going. It must be so strange for Sam, to be so overjoyed that his brother is alive at the same time as finding it rather inconvenient. And Ruby has rarely been so conciliatory about Dean before, but has always accepted his role in Sam's life and used it as leverage. So, she could be sincere, or this could be reverse psychology – or it could be that she is as scared of whatever brought Dean back as all the other demons.

Okay, and I realise that I sound incredibly negative about Sam...but it's just because I care enough to worry, honest! He's in a bad place, and I want him to be able to pull himself back out of it again eventually.


Other Brother Moments
"I've been killing a lot more demons than that lately."
"Well, not any more. The smarter brother's back in town."

Kinda striking that Dean is quite prepared to let the three demons go on the basis that it is three against one, with Sam wanting to charge in and take them all out – man, they really have reversed roles since season one!

I love seeing Sam give Dean's amulet back, that he's been wearing it – it's low key, but still beautiful. I've wanted this scene for months!

Hug! Two-sided hug! Man. Twice in this episode a hug is not only given but also returned by these gruff manly men: Dean and Sam preceded by Dean and Bobby. We haven't seen that since Shadow in season one! Too many one-sided hugs. *shakes head sadly*

Bless, Sam looks so shocked when he sees the handprint burned onto Dean's arm – Dean hadn't warned him about that one. He showed Bobby right away, though, which is interesting. I can't help wondering if the brand will heal and fade, or if the makeup department are going to have to recreate them every time we see Dean's bare shoulders from now on. Not that this happens all that often, of course.

I love that when the demon threatens Dean, Sam is instantly so tremendously protective, ready to leap into action, absolutely not prepared to let anything happen to his brother when he just got him back. But Dean just waves a hand and he backs down. This is why Sam needs Dean.

Oh, man – clothes sharing! Because…Dean dug himself out of his grave, so obviously his grave clothes would be filthy, so obviously he would need to get changed. But he goes to Bobby's first, being unable to contact Sam, and therefore has to borrow clothes from Bobby, which clearly isn't ideal. And then, well, whatever Sam did with Dean's effects, he clearly doesn't have them with him because we see Dean wearing Sam's clothes, and the sleeves are too long, the shirt just hanging off him. Because Sam is a giant, and Dean, although tall, is not. That's adorable attention to detail.

So has Sam got Dean's clothes and stuff stashed away someplace, such as John's lockup, I wonder? Or will Dean have to acquire a completely new wardrobe for himself?

Also adorable is Dean's reunion with the Impala – even as he shockingly admits that he almost forgot about her. I love that Sam immediately hands him the keys, doesn't hesitate to give back to his brother what was his. But he also doesn't apologise for having claimed full ownership – and committed the cardinal sin of installing an ipod jack! Man, Dean's disgruntled reaction is fabulous. Dean is not a fan of change. And, of course, Sam also doesn't apologise for taking the Impala when he goes off on his own later.


Bobby
"Sorry. Can't be too careful."

Oh man, Bobby's reunion with Dean is absolutely perfect in every detail, from his outrage at the phone calls to his utter, utter shock when he opens the door and finds Dean standing there, through his absolute disbelief, attacking and fighting what he believes to be a shapeshifter or revenant…allowing himself to be convinced, but still having a splash with the holy water, just to be on the safe side. Hee, that's the Bobby we all know and love, ever cautious. But, oh man, his reaction when he finally realises that this really is Dean and he really is alive, the way he just crumples and grabs hold and clings. If there was ever any doubt that he loves Dean like a son, surely there can't be any longer. He's always been closer to Dean than to Sam; they understand one another in a way that Sam has always kind of been excluded from.

But Bobby loves Sam, too, and man, the last few months have been rough for them all. Poor Bobby – he must have felt he'd lost them both, when Sam took off and stopped returning his calls. It clearly hit him horribly hard – just look at how heavily he's been drinking. Dean's accusation that he should have looked after Sam better couldn't have helped. Dean should know better than anyone that when Sam sets his mind to something there's no moving him – and Dean didn't exactly let himself be looked after either, when Sam died. It must be so hard to be in Bobby's position, to care about those boys so much and yet always be on the outside of their exclusive and co-dependent family bond. His reunion with Dean is a lot more comfortable than Sam's, though, overall, lacking all that guilt and deception; they are not so heavily co-dependent any more, perhaps. We'll see.

This is not the first time Dean has driven a stolen car to Bobby's – I wonder what Bobby does with them all later…*G*

Bobby describes in detail the condition Dean's body was in – chest torn to ribbons, insides reduced to slop. Ick. So, Sam apparently insisted that Dean be buried so he'd have a body to come back to, and Dean expresses relief about this. But I still maintain that it would make no difference if he'd been burned – if something is powerful enough to drag him out of hell and restore his body, it is powerful enough to reconstitute that body no matter how destroyed it was, even if reduced to ash.

"No demon's letting you loose out of the goodness of their hearts. They've gotta have something nasty planned."

I like that Bobby keeps asking how Dean is doing, if he feels different, long after accepting that it really is the real Dean back from the dead – he is a cautious man, and he knows as well as Dean does that in their world no miracle ever comes without a heavy price to pay.

I like Bobby's psychic friend, Pamela. She's just the right kind of feisty and flirty – see, this is the kind of person that should be drawn on when Show wants to introduce a new recurring female character. Someone who is experienced and capable and actually able to comes up with the goods when they agree to help, where all Ellen and Jo ever really did was offer vague support that never really materialised. But Pamela is also kind of impulsive and over-confident, and that's her downfall – I guess we won't be seeing her again, alas. Although I suppose where there's life there's hope. If only she had been prepared to back off with just the name.

I like that Dean expresses guilt that she is blinded because they went to her – it's typical that Dean is the one to shoulder the blame, though.

Dean's a lot more comfortable taking Bobby into danger against Castiel than Sam – he is just never going to get past that protective big brother urge. It's pretty reckless to risk Bobby, though – he's already seen this thing burn Pamela's eyes right out of her head.

Wow, but Bobby's graffiti in that deserted barn or whatever is way impressive.

-----

Okay, so overall? This intense, action-packed episode sets up all kinds of potential awesomeness for the season ahead, a season that looks set to be full of mystery and intrigue, with the brothers Winchester each being guided – whether reluctantly or not – but opposing forces. Just how likely it is that either Castiel or Ruby is telling the truth remains to be seen. Where the increasingly religious aspects of the mytharc are concerned, Show is kind of skating a fine line, and I hope to heck they can keep their balance. If they can, maybe this season can live up to its hype and turn out to be the very best yet!


So...yeah, this was rather longer and thinkier than I intended. Stand by for the full recap (fuller than this? Is that possible, I hear you ask?) sometime next week.

Comments

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, that's another good point and fascinating possibility - she's been treading such a fine line with Sam right from the start, and more so now than ever. Man, there are so many strands running through this plot!

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

I can't see that post - it's f-locked.

And, you know, I think you and I are never going to agree on the subject of sexism in this show - we'll just have to agree to disagree. A couple of slaps intended to provoke a demon can't be reason enough to stop watching the rest of the awesome, surely?

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

I don't want to get into a big debate about this, because like I said: I don't think this is a point on which you and I are ever going to agree.

Now I see a female character and think "Oh, will they beat her to death or skewer her or just fuck her and leave her?
I think this is way harsh, though. When have we ever seen the boys beating anyone to death? They've been in some pretty brutal fights, it is true, but generally against opponents much stronger than they are, who give as good as they get - and in which the boys generally come off worse. When have they ever skewered anyone just for the sake of skewering them? Dean stabbed Tammi, who was a massively dangerous demon on the point of killing them all - no different to Sam beheading Gordon. And as for fucking and leaving, when have we ever seen or heard of either brother spending the night with a woman who hadn't chosen to do so? Have we ever seen any promises of forever being made? No, both parties give their consent and know what they are getting into: no strings attached.

In this episode, yes, Dean slaps a demon wearing a woman's body. And yes, it is shocking. Yes, he could have provoked her some other way. But he isn't hitting her because she is a woman. He hits her because she is a demon. Because he is completely and utterly freaked about everything that is going on. Yes, the show is becoming steadily more violent, and that is troubling, but it is an inevitable result of the brothers' escalating circumstances - this is what war does. It hardens people. And the violence has nothing to do with gender. In this episode, the demon taking a lead role was female. But there have been plenty of male demons, as well - when you tally it up, Dean is actually a fairly equal opportunities demon-hater. He doesn't care what they look or sound like, he just hates them all for what they are.

And if all the demons took male form, surely you'd complain that there aren't enough powerful women on the show.

Bottom line: it is not the job of this show to represent some kind of feminist utopia. It is the story of the show to tell the story of these characters and the world they inhabit. The world they inhabit is increasingly harsh, violent and brutal, and that reflects in their behaviour. It doesn't have anything to do with gender studies.

That's my take on the issue. I know you feel very differently. I don't want to argue about it. I just hope you can enjoy the show without gettinh gung up on these concerns.

[bagpuss1966.livejournal.com]

*Hugs*

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

I'm really looking forward to seeing you and Gaynor in a couple of weeks...here's hoping we don't have another date fall through!

[keire-ke.livejournal.com]

The episode delivered! Obviously, Dean needed to be back ASAP, there just isn't enough supernatural in SPN without Dean.

I have to say, I'm hoping Castiel proves to be legit. For one thing, Dean could use some moral support, for another it would provide some much needed balance. Also, I have a thing for angels. XD

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

It has been such a long, long summer - they made us experience Dean's death in real time! Man, it felt good to have him back again.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward suspecting that Castiel is some form of legit, but that it won't turn out to be that straightforward, because on this show nothing is.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I can't help wondering why Sam picked that particular place to bury him, I must admit. He died in Indiana. So why take him to Illinois for burial? Random? Or not? Curious.


Well, any being strong enough to bring Dean back to life is strong enough to move the grave to wherever it wants. We don't know that Dean was buried where he dug himself out. And to answer the obvious question "Why bring him back in his coffin?" well, since Dean didn't remember much, if he woke up somewhere unburied, he might believe that his death was just a bad dream. Digging himself out of his own coffin proves he really did die and go to Hell.

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Bobby does say that the town they find Sam in is right near where they planted Dean - I think it is safe to say he was brought back in his own grave. I don't have a problem with that - the angel (or whatever) would have no reason to move him in that sense. It just dragged him out of hell and put him back in his body, wherever that happened to be. Which was underground.

Probably just as well the grave was in such a dry spot, so the soil was relatively easy to dig through!

[slightlyjillian.livejournal.com]

I found your review through spnnewsletter, and I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the episode. *chuckles* I think I lost track of time perusing through it all. Well said.

I like to keep track of people that enjoy SPN as much as myself and think along these lines, so I hope you don't mind if I friend you. It looks like it's going to be quite an engaging season.

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Hi, thanks. Um, yeah. I tend to write a lot. The show just makes me incredibly wordy! Believe it or not, this was the short version... Later in the week will come a more complete episode recap! *G*

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

I'm still going "Whoa!" the next day.

Yay for explaining what Lazarus means. I was curious!

But let's face it: Supernatural has been heading in this direction for quite some time now, so this development really shouldn't be that much of a surprise, when you stop and think about it. And yet it comes completely out of left field and leaves absolutely everyone gasping.

I think it's because, if you asked me during season one, are we going to end up at an apocalypse? I would have said there was a small chance but probably not, because when the show started the boys were focusing on small-fry. I kind of miss that, actually, but I'm excited about where the show is going now. But yeah, towards the end of season two, I started to realize just HOW big they were planning to take things. Hopefully they can pull it off.

We could also look back to Houses of the Holy, in season two. "I like to think of them as more loving than wrathful," Father Reynolds rather hopefully said, before agreeing with Sam that Scripture in fact describes angels more as God's warriors.

Now, bear with me a bit here - for some reason I am remembering that there are two versions of the Bible (old testament and new testament?) and that, in the old one, God is very much about wrath and actually a very scary figure. So it wouldn't surprise me if that's how the angels are going to be portayed in Supernatural - as warriors, not cuddly little babies playing harps. (But please correct me if I'm wrong!)

But there is certainly nothing benign about him. He might not kill Bobby – there'd be no forgiveness for that! – but he does blind Pamela, however inadvertently, and seems to have no compunction whatsoever killing human hosts just for the sake of putting the frighteners on those demons that Sam follows to town.

And again, if I'm remembering right, that fits with the old wrathful God to me - angels do whatever they have to when they're on a mission from God. I think that the boys may be faced with another gray-area question, like they have before. Remember how they've been exploring before if something being Supernatural automatically makes it evil? And then, in season three, with Sam willing to do anything to save Dean, they made you think about,"Do the ends justify the means?" I think maybe they're going to continue with that line, like - Does their being angels excuse what they do?

That coffin scene freaked me out, but I think it was when he got OUTSIDE and you saw the land around him that it freaked me out. I was like "Uh-oh."

I loved that voice thing too! A fantastic touch that I wouldn't have thought about.

I can't help wondering why Sam picked that particular place to bury him, I must admit. He died in Indiana. So why take him to Illinois for burial? Random? Or not? Curious.

I didn't even wonder about that!

And this fits my timeline perfectly! People, ignore the Superwiki timeline because it is wrong. Use mine instead! *pokes*

*is poked*

It's fascinating to see how right he is – no matter the provocation, and in contrast to her threats, the demon doesn't lift a finger against him, and neither do either of her companions. They're scared. Curiouser and curiouser! How long can this last, I wonder – surely Dean can't possibly get through the entire season with the demon population of the world too scared to touch him. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

That makes me curious, too - did the demons suspect it was an angel? If so, are they going to be scared forever, or are they eventually going to get over it?

I want to know why Castiel KEPT trying to talk to Dean when it was apparent that he couldn't hear him right. I think there was a bit of "I'm fucking around with you" there. Maybe angels don't get out much.

It would absolutely fascinate me if Sam could see and hear an angel's "true visage" when Dean is the one who was raised up by one. I kind of get the feeling that they're setting up Sammy to be the "bad" one and Dean to be the "good" one, so I can't wait to see how this all plays out.

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Yep, the Bible is in two parts - Old Testament and New. And like I said, if Castiel is an angel, he is definitely the Old Testament variety rather than the New - although it is the New Testament that Father Reynolds quotes in HOTH about an angel terrifying shepherds with its splendour. Modern views of angels tend to only think of them as a kind of holy choir, peaceful and loving. But the wrathful variety are very much a part of mythology.

Getting so close to Biblical theology worries me, because I know it so well, so picking and choosing which bits they are going to use or reject is inevitably going to bother me. Just have to see how it goes!

I want to know why Castiel KEPT trying to talk to Dean when it was apparent that he couldn't hear him right. I think there was a bit of "I'm fucking around with you" there. Maybe angels don't get out much.
He only did it twice - at the gas station and at the motel. And from his attitude when he talked with Dean later, I'm guessing that he doesn't get out much, isn't used to this kind of thing. So when his first attempt at communication didn't work, it confused him, so he waited for an opportunity to try again in case that first failure was a fluke - he was expecting Dean to be able to see and hear him without any problems. Once he realised that this was definitely not the case, he took alternate measures.

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

Thank goodness I at least remember something from Sunday school!! Hopefully where they go with it won't bother you too much, but with this show? Who knows?

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

Part 2

And if it does turn out that he is heading toward his intended role as 'anti-Christ', leader of a demon army, without even realising it, the cosmic scales tilting a little too far in favour of evil…well, then, maybe that's a very good reason for a little divine intervention, bringing back the one person who stands any chance of redeeming him.

That is what I'm hoping is going to happen - that they brought Dean back as sort of insurance against Sam. Maybe they were going to, but maybe the slide they saw in the four months was gone was so alarming to the "guys upstairs" that they decided it was better safe than sorry.

Of course, I'm not familiar with anti-Christ lore at all, so - why would they NEED somebody? I mean, they're angels, if they can burn out a host's eyes surely they can kill a human for the "greater good"? Unless they're not allowed to do anything directly TO someone. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And the confrontation is perfect – Sam not believing that it is Dean, Dean believing that Sam did something to bring him back…

I was shocked by how FAST Sam moved! And already having a knife on him when he looks like he just got out of a shower? Boy's changed fast, like he did in Mystery Spot.

He'd accepted that Dean was gone for good and he'd moved on – moved on in ways that he knew Dean wouldn't approve of. As a result, having Dean back in his life can't be clean and simple. There is relief and there is delight and there is joy, but there is also guilt and deception and awkwardness and tension. And that's how it should be – for Dean's death to have its full meaning, there has to be payoff. On this show, life does not come cheap – there is always a price to be paid. Right now, the price being paid by the Winchesters for Dean's resurrection is the fracture of the intensely close bond he and his brother had shared.

And you saw that right off the bat, Sam almost separating himself from Dean right from the start.

But then there's the reveal that this wasn't just a random girl after all. It was Ruby – definitely the same girl, right? And that changes everything.

And I totally missed that the first watch-through. I didn't even think about how the host can't consent - wow. That's something to think about, isn't it?

It's also troubling because Sam lies outright to Dean's face about Ruby. He lies by omission when she is in the room, Ruby acting dumb to reinforce the impression that she is a casual conquest and Sam playing along without so much as blinking. And he lies again later, when Dean asks what happened to Ruby and Sam tells him she is dead. It is scary how good of a liar he is, and that Dean absolutely cannot tell.

What scares me is - that's how Sam and Dean used to be with everyone "outside" them, and it's almost like Sam found...not a replacement, exactly, but someone who fills that spot where Dean used to be, and that's what he wants because he wants to keep hunting. He doesn't care about anything else.

And, man, sneaking out in the middle of the night to get his own way having been overruled earlier – it is so Sam. I thought he'd grown past that.

I think that was part of this new thing he might have - like fighting with Dean about it was a waste of time because he was doing it to matter what, and it's just easier to keep Dean in the dark. Like nothing anyone, even Dean, says is going to change his mind.

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

maybe the slide they saw in the four months was gone was so alarming to the "guys upstairs" that they decided it was better safe than sorry.
That's my guess, although this show's variety of PTB have always been pretty resolutely anti-interventionist in the past! Makes me wonder what they might have done if the YED's plans had gone differently, if it wasn't Sam in the hot seat all on his own, if it was Jake, for eg, with the YED pulling his strings - would we be seeing a different kind of intervention, perhaps?

why would they NEED somebody?
This is where we get into hazy ground, because it depends how much the Show is likely to rely on Biblical mythology, or simply take certain aspects as a starting point and run off on their own tangent. But traditionally, God has always been big on free will - allowing humans to dig their own graves, as it were. It's the whole point of Christianity, that it has to be a personal choice, something no one else can do for you. It's all about free will. So, I dunno, but maybe that will play into it - that however this demon war plays out, there can't be any direct intervention from above, the humans have to handle it themselves.

Or Castiel could be a complete rogue acting on his own initiative! Who knows, at this stage?

I was shocked by how FAST Sam moved! And already having a knife on him when he looks like he just got out of a shower? Boy's changed fast, like he did in Mystery Spot.
Sam is kinda scary these days. Makes you look back at the naive boy of the Pilot and mourn, no?

I totally missed that the first watch-through.
I didn't realise it was the same girl at first. Then I saw someone else comment on it, and thought 'surely not'. So I went back and looked, and sure enough, it is her! I really don't know what to think about that - reserving judgement until more information is forthcoming!

I think that was part of this new thing he might have - like fighting with Dean about it was a waste of time because he was doing it to matter what, and it's just easier to keep Dean in the dark. Like nothing anyone, even Dean, says is going to change his mind.
Sam really is scary these days. It's like in Mystery Spot, where toward the end he gave up trying to explain anything to Dean, just brushed him off and got on with what he had planned without reference to his brother at all. It made perfect sense, in the circumstances, with Dean starting on a clean slate every morning and the frustration of having to convince him every time. But it was still a worrying character trait, the part of Sam that takes after John most strongly. And we're seeing it again here.

With Dean gone, Sam has constructed this whole new life for himself. He severed his ties with Bobby and allowed Ruby to guide him, which meant that there was no voice of reason to hold him back. He convinced himself that he was doing the best he could, utilising every weapon at his disposal to avenge his brother. But now Dean is back, the truth of Sam's actions will be laid bare and Sam can't hide/lie to himself anymore. He has to re-evaluate completely. And that's where all the lies come in. e's trying to buy some time to reexamine. However, one lie leads to another until an entire fortress is built in hopes of protecting the first lie. It's a vicious downward spiral, potentially. Very troubling.

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

Part 3

Sam's shiny new demon-extracting power is very scary. It's like he just crushes the demon right out of the body. He believes he is saving people, and sure, he saved anyone else from being killed by that demon, but until I see a host survive the process I won't be convinced. I mean, he expresses regret that the host doesn't survive, but doesn't seem surprised. And he was already way past the point of being overly troubled by collateral damage in S3, well and truly into the realms of the end justifying the means.

I think to Sam when he said he was saving people, it was the people the demons may have killed later - not the host. And did he KILL that demon? Because watching it, it looked to me like the black cloud came out, fell to the ground, and then turned to some kind of black crud around the body. But I'm not sure.

That's a curious line for Ruby to be taking, and a worrying line for Sam to be taking. Dean being back has certainly complicated things for them both, well and truly disrupted whatever little set up they had going. It must be so strange for Sam, to be so overjoyed that his brother is alive at the same time as finding it rather inconvenient. And Ruby has rarely been so conciliatory about Dean before, but has always accepted his role in Sam's life and used it as leverage. So, she could be sincere, or this could be reverse psychology – or it could be that she is as scared of whatever brought Dean back as all the other demons.

I got this kind of...I'm-lower-than-you-on-the-totem-pole vibe from Ruby this episode. It may just be the new actress, but it almost seems like Ruby is...afraid of Sam, a little bit? Or maybe just desperate to keep him happy.

I love seeing Sam give Dean's amulet back, that he's been wearing it – it's low key, but still beautiful. I've wanted this scene for months!

Hug! Two-sided hug! Man. Twice in this episode a hug is not only given but also returned by these gruff manly men: Dean and Sam preceded by Dean and Bobby. We haven't seen that since Shadow in season one! Too many one-sided hugs. *shakes head sadly*

I LOVED IT ALL!!

Oh, man – clothes sharing!
*dies*

Also adorable is Dean's reunion with the Impala – even as he shockingly admits that he almost forgot about her. I love that Sam immediately hands him the keys, doesn't hesitate to give back to his brother what was his. But he also doesn't apologise for having claimed full ownership – and committed the cardinal sin of installing an ipod jack! Man, Dean's disgruntled reaction is fabulous. Dean is not a fan of change. And, of course, Sam also doesn't apologise for taking the Impala when he goes off on his own later.

That was soo funny.

But Bobby loves Sam, too, and man, the last few months have been rough for them all. Poor Bobby – he must have felt he'd lost them both, when Sam took off and stopped returning his calls. It clearly hit him horribly hard – just look at how heavily he's been drinking. Dean's accusation that he should have looked after Sam better couldn't have helped. Dean should know better than anyone that when Sam sets his mind to something there's no moving him – and Dean didn't exactly let himself be looked after either, when Sam died. It must be so hard to be in Bobby's position, to care about those boys so much and yet always be on the outside of their exclusive and co-dependent family bond. His reunion with Dean is a lot more comfortable than Sam's, though, overall, lacking all that guilt and deception; they are not so heavily co-dependent any more, perhaps. We'll see.

My heart breaks for Bobby. Because there's this part of the boys he just can't reach and the boys don't even realize it. He thinks of them as sons, and it must be so hard to try and help and be there and not be able to. ♥ But I think they're getting better!

On a completely shallow note - the boys looked GOOD last night didn't they? Hotter than they have in awhile, and that's saying something!

Also, I love this layout!

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

I think to Sam when he said he was saving people, it was the people the demons may have killed later - not the host. And did he KILL that demon? Because watching it, it looked to me like the black cloud came out, fell to the ground, and then turned to some kind of black crud around the body. But I'm not sure.
Yeah, clearly future victims of the demon would be saved. It is just really troubling if the host body always dies - but that's something we can't know yet. It is one thing if the host body is already damaged and dies as a result of exorcism, although our heroes have been getting worryingly hardened to that already, but quite another to cause the death of the host by the means of demon-extraction. And I really don't know what happened to the demon once it was out - there was flame, so was it destroyed or just sent back to hell? Who knows? So many questions, so few answers!

almost seems like Ruby is...afraid of Sam, a little bit? Or maybe just desperate to keep him happy.
I really, really want to know what her game is. I mean, what was the point of putting so much effort into Sam and his powers if she can't control him? Or was it just always about wanting to shelter under the wing of the most powerful party in this war? Bathing in his reflected glory, or whatever? Either way, she is treading a finer and finer line all the time, from what we can tell.

My heart breaks for Bobby. Because there's this part of the boys he just can't reach and the boys don't even realize it. He thinks of them as sons, and it must be so hard to try and help and be there and not be able to. ♥ But I think they're getting better!
It was pretty noticeable to me in this episode that Dean's reunion with Bobby was a lot smoother and easier than with Sam. With Sam there was the hugging and happiness, sure, but always that undertow of tension. With Bobby there was none of that. I felt Dean was connecting with him a lot more closely than with Sam, that unique brotherly bond of theirs well and truly fractured by Dean's time in hell. It is going to take time to rebuild.

And hell yes, the boys looked amazing. ♥

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

This premiere was so interesting this time around!! There are so many questions we have no answers to it makes me wonder how they're going to tie it all up at the end of the season!! Or the show, possibly.

I want it to be Thursday again!

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

I bow before your level of clarity and coherence! ♥ Excellent review, I think one of your best pre-recap reviews ever. Looking forward to the full version! *hugs*

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

There was just too much to say about this episode!

Part 1

[persuna.livejournal.com]

Sam loves his brother more than anything. He wanted him back, wanted him out of hell and out of pain. But he had conceded defeat. He'd accepted that Dean was gone for good and he'd moved on – moved on in ways that he knew Dean wouldn't approve of. As a result, having Dean back in his life can't be clean and simple. There is relief and there is delight and there is joy, but there is also guilt and deception and awkwardness and tension.

There is always a price to be paid.

Yes! I wish I had constructive points to say in return to this amazing meta/review, but I may just agree a lot and tell you how awesome this is. You articulated thoughts I had in my head before I managed it. Before this aired I thought I couldn't be happy with any kind of reunion but a simple, joyful, tearful one, but I turned out to be satisfied (if not happy exactly) with this one, which was full of love and relief but also tension and sorrow and unease and deception. Winchesters are difficult and complex, and that is why I love them.

It's also troubling because Sam lies outright to Dean's face about Ruby.

Sam playing along with Ruby seamlessly against Dean who used to be the one he partnered with against others was really chilling. That more than Sam using demon powers (he did use them for good!) or lying to Dean using his dying wish as an argument (that was incredibly cold and ruthless) or anything else made me worry about him. Sam has a new partner who he is relaxed and physically vulnerable with. And it's a demon. Yes this means that he can theoretically send her away anytime I know, but it's not Dean, it's a demon and they pair up in silent alliance against Dean. I'm repeating myself because it freaks me out.

Sam's concern and love are still evident in his reaction to Dean's burn and the demon's threat, and they're still flicking each other little looks and bantering... and I'm pretty sure it's an ultimately futile attempt at a veneer of normality to cover all the deceit and uncertainty that will allow things to fester and develop too far and come back to bite them painfully at the worst possible time but I love Sam and Dean's closeness. *mourns* I think we'll get back to it, but I think it's a long road. Possibly a road two seasons long. Sigh. So I kind of like the denial. Hopefully it will allow for some old fashioned monster of the week episodes between mytharc stuff. Kripke has promised in the past to keep to a certain percentage of mytharc, but he also said no angels.

In Time Is On My Side he stood up for his own convictions, demonstrated that he was an adult capable of making his own decisions, equal partner rather than subordinate, taking orders from no one. But then here he is again, sneaking away in the night like a rebellious teenager. It just goes to show how uncertain he is of the rightness of his actions.

I hadn't thought about that, but yes! You are so spot on.

Part 2, how did this get so long?

[persuna.livejournal.com]

Until I see a host survive the process I won't be convinced.

I do think that people have as much chance of surviving Sam's mental exorcism as a verbal one, and it might be more of a hope, but I don't think it's unfounded. In S3 we saw people dying after normal exorcisms with no visible injuries simply because they'd been ridden hard by their demon. This woman's eyeballs have exploded in her head and the fact that Sam even checks makes me think he's seen people survive before. And it actually seems quicker and less violent than the whole long drawn out, visibly painful and stressful normal exorcism where there's usually sweating and straining and banging about. Of course one isn't much to go off, and Sam does take the death relatively calmly, but he is still upset... Can you tell I like Sam on the side of good?

That's a curious line for Ruby to be taking, and a worrying line for Sam to be taking.

Ruby was weird. I wonder if Sam summoned her, or if she crawled her way back herself. If Sam summoned her he reached out with his powers of his own accord. Is she faking this empathy and concern (it's all rather different from glorying in the idea of Dean the spineless dick being tortured) or has some genuine change or affection come over her? Demons can have relationships and feel romantic attachment, as evidenced by Sin City, and perhaps Ruby, being "different" is more prone to softer emotions? Sam is part demon, and she's a little more human than most, so it's not even totally interspecies. Maybe the writers have just gotten lost in a new actress? Okay, I don't think the latter is too likely given how great this episode was for everyone else's characterisation. I'm hoping for callous manipulation and platonic room sharing. There is no way to get round the sex consent issue and some things are too far.

I just sense that these are the questions they will tease us with all season. Damn you Kripke!

Your meta is well informed and written and in conclusion I wish I had your brain.

Re: Part 2, how did this get so long?

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

How did your comment get so long? You saw the length of the review I wrote, right? LOL There's just something about this episode that inspires many words!

So many questions, so few answers, no? Means there is all kinds of unfolding of all these mysteries still to come, which has got to be a good thing. This season is going to be awesome.

I'm withholding judgement on Ruby. I don't trust her as far as I can spit, but there is just too much that we don't know about her to really judge her properly. I'm not convinced she really is any different to the other demons - I suspect that was just a line she was spinning to Dean because she wanted his support. I think she is playing a very clever long game with Sam, angling for a share of his power. But really, we'll just have to wait and find out!

Thanks for commenting :)

Re: Part 1

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Hi!

Before this aired I thought I couldn't be happy with any kind of reunion but a simple, joyful, tearful one, but I turned out to be satisfied
I know what you mean - when S3 ended I was convinced I could only be satisfied if we got to see Sam's grieving process and experience the devastation and trauma alongside him, etc. Show does love to prove us wrong, though.

Having said that, I did change my mind over the course of the summer. After such a long hiatus, I was more than ready to move on with the story and have Dean back already! And as much of an instant hit of delight a simple and joyful reunion would have been, I realised a long time ago that the kind of reunion we actually got would be much more satisfying in the long run. Because life and death on this show always have value. If life is restored to someone who has died, there is always a heavy price to pay. So for Dean's death to have its full value, his return to life couldn't be simple - it had to have a knock-on effect on his relationship with Sam. I was completely prepared for it to result in something of a gulf between the brothers, and that was exactly what we got!

*polishes crystal ball :D*

Plus, having this division now, of course, means we get to go through the angsty process of reconnecting again, which means more satisfying emotional reunions still to come...

Reason for return

[spacefarer.livejournal.com]

I loved the episode. This was an interesting discussion, but I really hope you're wrong about the reason Dean was pulled from Hell. I would like something in this universe to be about Dean, and not Sam, for one thing. For another, it would make Sam the most important person in the universe, and I'm not ready now or ever to buy that. For a yet a third reason, it creates certain contradictions and problems for me: this is God we're talking about. If God wanted to lead Sam away from a dark path, He could send *Sam* an angel. If God felt Sam had already started on the dark path and was potentially dangerous, He could send an angel--the kind that blows demons away without working up a sweat (wait, He did). I don't see why God needs Dean for either reason.

Plus, it means that God would have let Dean--who really doesn't deserve to burn in Hell for all eternity and who had been a warrior for the Light all his life and who, out of all the Winchesters, was the one for whom saving people was a priority (versus, vengeance)--stay in Hell if it weren't for Special Sam. That would be very off-putting to me.

My feeling (and hope) is that this has to do with what we learned in the TV Guide preview on the returning shows, that is, Lilith's plan, and that God thinks Dean has something unique to bring to that fight, but that Dean had to be in Hell for some time because it was hellfire that put the final tempering on the sword.

Re: Reason for return

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Oh, aye. There are loads and loads more possible theories - I was just thinking aloud based on evidence available so far. I'm absolutely certain that nothing will turn out quite like it seems at the moment - there are going to be twists, turns and misleads a-plenty along the way. I love that this show always keeps us thinking and guessing, but then suddenly makes perfect sense when you look back. *G*

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

This is not your full review? Good grief, woman, what do you do for an encore?

Re: angels in Supernatural, I share your discomfort with Kripke directly invoking God in his cosmology; those are perilous waters to navigate. I agree with your observations about Castiel; I think they were going for a serious, other-worldly take on how an angel would appear to and relate to humans. The air of power and danger really sold it for me.

The difference I think is not so much Old Testament v. New Testament as traditional Judeo-Christian v. pop culture interpretation. Even in the New Testament angels inspire fear and apprehension (for example, Zacharias and Mary were both afraid and troubled when angels appeared to them) as well as martial connotations (for example, when one of the apostles attacks a Roman soldier at the betrayal in Gethsemane, Jesus makes clear that if he needed defending, God would send him "legions" of angels, and there is all manner of frightening angel imagery in the Revelation).

But we rarely see that type of portrayal in pop culture (ie, Touched by an Angel), and even some denominations play into a kind of soft-focus, cuddly version of guardian angels, so there's a general cultural interpretation of angels that severely contrasts with the way Castriel is presented.

Really enjoyed your meta. Thanks for sharing!

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Absolutely true what you say. I do think, though, that the modern vision of the benign and loving angel stems from the New Testament. Folk have such selective memories - they blot out all the terror and warlike references and remember only that a heavenly choir sang hymns to celebrate the birth of baby Jesus, and celebrates again every time a soul is saved. Plus, of course, there are however-many generations whose only knowledge of Biblical angels stems from school Nativity plays. Little girls wearing white dresses and fluffy wings, with tinsel in their hair. It all does tend to create a rather one-sided impression!

This is not your full review? Good grief, woman, what do you do for an encore?
LOL you really wanna know? (http://randomness.liquid-deception.net/ep-sn3.php)

What can I say? I'm wordy. And I like to have full details recorded to refer back to later...

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

I do think, though, that the modern vision of the benign and loving angel stems from the New Testament. Folk have such selective memories - they blot out all the terror and warlike references and remember only that a heavenly choir sang hymns to celebrate the birth of baby Jesus, and celebrates again every time a soul is saved.

I think you're right. I'm not certain about the Catholic and Orthodox interpretations, but that definitely lines up with your average mainline Protestant view. I'd even say it's part of a larger softened view of all of the New Testament (the same Jesus who raised Lazarus opened up a can of whoop--- when he found commercial activity in the Temple). And this view is the one that has come to dominate the cultural view of angels, at least in North America.

[littlepunkryo.livejournal.com]

I think we forgot one very important thing about this episode -

It had sleeping!Dean!!!

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO that it did! ♥

When I first saw Dean sleeping, I got all hopeful, because one thing I've wanted to see all summer was Dean sleeping and Sam just sitting staring at him, trying to process and absorb the fact that he really is back and really is alive and the nightmare really is over. But no...

Still. Practically everything else that I predicted (mostly in private conversations with galathea_snb, though, rather than publicly - curses! LOL) happened in this episode, so I can feel smugly satisfied about that. *G*

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[happywriter06.livejournal.com]

I shook my head yes as I was reading. The one thing I'll talk about is Ruby.

I've never been able to get a handle of Ruby. Who she is? What she wants? Is she really on their sides? Her comment to Sam about never coming between Dean and him just automatically struck me as disingenious. Since when hasn't she? I can't remember her doing anything overt and even as she was 'helping Sam to save Dean', I never got the impression that she wasn't interested in screwing up their relationship. Perhaps it's wasn't conscious on her part like if their relationship was fractured as a result of her involvement with Sam, that would be a bonus.

I definitely think the girl in the hotel is Ruby. When I realized this, I did ask why was she in her underwear. I mean when demons take over a body, do they need still to shower and whatnot? It's not something I had thought about it. I definitely prefer going that that road rather than even wondering if Sam and Ruby are together. I mean it never seemed to me that Sam liked her enough beyond what she could do for him. He always seems to keep a certain level of disdain. So what changed? I would think he wouldn't want to have anything to do with her after she couldn't save Dean.

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[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Hi, thanks for reading and commenting. (And if you fancy an even longer read on the same subject, see my latest post: http://llywela13.livejournal.com/341543.html#cutid1) *G*

I've always been convinced that Ruby's ultimate intentions are entirely self-promotional - I talk about it a lot in the post I just pointed you towards. Her interest has always been in Sam and his powers. Dean has always been more of an inconvenience to her than anything - she needed him alive last season to maintain her hold over Sam, but his influence over his brother was very inconvenient to her. Even when she was saving him, you could see how much she loathed him. So to have him back now, just when she seemed to finally have what she'd wanted all along - Sam's undivided interest and trust - must be infuriating to her! But she can't tell Sam that, has to keep playing this very clever long game.

Man, I would appreciate Ruby's character a lot more, though, if I understood how she thinks a little better. I can make my best guess and rationalise a lot, but I'd be more comfortable if Show explained just a tiny bit more. I get, though, that with the character being who and what she is (and having no natural confidantes) this isn't easy.

I'm very curious to know more about Sam's time alone, how he got from there to here, as it were. I mean, it is pretty clear that once he'd broken contact with Bobby the field was wide open for Ruby to cement her influence over him - he might have always kept her at arm's length before, but he also always left the door open a crack for her, and I think she is clever enough and manipulative enough to use that. She could turn it all back around on him - if only you'd listened to me, Dean might still be alive... And then the next thing you know, he is trying hard to forget the promise he made his brother and instead practicing his powers, under Ruby's guidance...

But hopefully Show will actually explain all this sooner or later!

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[happywriter06.livejournal.com]

Even when she was saving him, you could see how much she loathed him. So to have him back now, just when she seemed to finally have what she'd wanted all along - Sam's undivided interest and trust - must be infuriating to her! But she can't tell Sam that, has to keep playing this very clever long game.
I agree. I just hope that this agreeable Sam still has a part of him that is skeptical of her motivations.

Man, I would appreciate Ruby's character a lot more, though, if I understood how she thinks a little better.
Me, too. I thought it was just me having missed something about her.

She could turn it all back around on him - if only you'd listened to me, Dean might still be alive...
She seemed to do that alot last season and every time I just wanted to punch her in her face because I just know she was lying. It was always I can do this but she never did anything as far as I can remember even if Sam and/or Dean was against it. Just something to show some good faith.

I will definitely check out your new post.